Climate Change and Global Warming - Yeah, Right

Thanks, Tim, let's let the Big Man Upstairs 'take care of the planet', eh? I think he knows more than any of us....been around a little longer.

Does the phrase"Never let a crisis go unused" sound familiar. Crisis management seems to be the order of the day for Washington DC. (Whichever party is in power) The Cap and Trade bill is EXACTLY that. An opportunity to gain more power for the federal government and the unintended consequence of screwing business in America and virtually nowhere else.
It seems that some are ashamed of the greatness of this country, and are trying to level the playing field with all third world countries.
Wake up people, pay attention to whom you elect.

~15,000 years ago, Chicago was under a mile of ice (Wisconsin glacier). No one has ever explained how man melted that. I've never seen Algore, or any of the others, asked that very simple question. How many caveman lawn mowers or SUVs did it take?

Tim,

My thoughts are pretty much in line with yours on global warming and of the current administration.
I let my frustration out in the for, of "Patriot's Papers". Number 8 had a lot to say
on Global warming and some other swipes at big government.
All the papers are on the Patriotsfire website....

Oops, you need one more button on the bottom of the page- one that says "EDIT"!The above post should have read "in the form of". :)>

The Patriotsfire website is here: WWW.Patriotsfire.US.

I'm finally beginning to breathe a little easier, now that it's only the world's politicians and the MSM who continue to hawk AGW. The fight's far from over, though.

One comment about Al Gore. I always refer to him as "algor," because there's a definition of algor that is perfect for Al Gore:

From Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language, College Edition, Copyright 1960:

algor (al’ gor), n. [L., cold], a chill felt during fever.

Unfortunately, it appears that Al Gore, Sr., may have had the word scrubbed from subsequent dictionaries. Obviously, it was TOO perfect.

I keep saying that if the warming cult can up with a single real example, then I'll have to change my mind. So when Mr. Gore really throws out something concrete, I have to go have a look.

This looked promising:

http://www.made-in-southamerica.org/200 ... s-and.html

Wow! I mean except for the part where he says water flow is increasing but people are leaving because of the lack of water. Still, that's probably just Gore-can't-read-his-teleprompter. Still might as well have a look.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msa=0&msi ... 8&t=h&z=18

Golly, if that was a giant glacier it sure did go away. Maybe this Global Warming thing finally has some proof!

-- web search, web search. Skip the first page of google results obviously, warming cult knows how to seed Google --

Oh. Sorry Gore not this time:

http://www.made-in-southamerica.org/200 ... s-and.html

Can't really say that global warming is melting the glaciers when the temperatures are actually going down. Guess I got ya yet again you tricky elf.

Looking forward to the next riddle though! Thanks Mr. Gore.

Does anyone besides me realize that the "dreaded carbon dioxide" is what we, as humans, produce when we breathe out?? Al Gore is quite the political puppet and story teller!

Patrick Wood, editor of The August Review will host the Laurie Roth Show this week. Join the show this afternoon from 3:00-6:00pm Pacific as he hosts The Laurie Roth Show on nationally syndicated radio.

The topic is Technocracy: Global Endgame? and my guests today will be Dr. Michael Coffman and Carl Teichrib.

Listen to the show on your local IRNUSA radio station or on the Internet.

Go to www.therothshow.com and click on "Listen Live" or...

Go to www.irnusaradio.com and click on The Roth Show
This connects to the global warming "mess." They are in the 2nd hour now.

Tim, I love your fire, enthusiasm, and can do attitude. The way political leaders of all persuasions have become so out of touch with the ordinary people they are supposed to represent is something that really needs to be addressed. They need to be responsive and accountable to their electorate.......... But be careful what you ask for, as you need workable and real policies to replace what you are protesting about.

With regard to climate change... I am 52, and when I was in primary school in the 60's, my teacher told us about the CO2 data coming out of Hawaii. He said that there would be severe consequences from this. Nobody knew what those consequences would be, but that there would nevertheless be environmental consequences. Opinion was divided over whether it would cause increased or decreased net global warming.... Maybe the extra cloud cover from the extra water vapour would counteract any greenhouse warming effect???? Who knew???? It was only speculation then.

As a complete lay person, I have been trying to follow this issue for about 40 years. Long before it was ever a mainstream topic of debate or conversation.

In my world travels, I have kept a weather eye out (Excuse the pun.) for anecdotal evidence of change. ..... And it is everywhere!!!! The constant has been that the elderly remember different weather patterns from those being experienced by our generation. I hear this in Australia, North America, Japan,and SE Asia.

The best summary of the history and growth of the science behind the "Human activity caused climate change" debate is a book called "Fixing Climate - The story of Climate Science - and how to stop global warming" by Robert Kunzig & Wallace Broecker.

Several times in the last few million years, there have been ABRUPT changes to earth's climate. Abrupt meaning drastic changes in just a few decades...... Not over hundreds of thousands of years. These changes have been recorded in ice and sediment cores from all over the world, among other sources.

I would urge everyone to refrain from jumping on any bandwagons until you have cast a critical eye over the key evidence that is available to anyone with an open mind. It is hard to find even remotely unbiased information out there. Spin doctors on both sides are hard at work, especially if I may be so bold, on the climate change skeptics side of the debate.

The above mentioned book does the best job of summarizing the complex issues in a relatively easy to read, and relatively unbiased way that I have come across to date.

To those on both sides of the debate who have jumped on a particular bandwagon, please remember:..... Just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean that everyone is not out to get you!!

And Tim, with all due respect for your geological training..... Nobody is denying that there are huge terminal morains just down the road from your home, or that Glaciers haven't advanced and receded across the landscape in the past. But can you explain what triggered these changes??? And are those triggers being pulled by human activity now?? I think the evidence is extremely strong that we ARE pulling the trigger, and that we are behoven to future generations to do something about it.

Just because a cat has kittens in the oven, it doesn't make them biscuits!!

The evidence, for those wishing to get their mind around it, is there for all to see. And the vast majority of the scientific community seem to be in agreeance. For the most part, it is Politicians and their puppet masters who are creating the spin and hype, not the scientists, regardless of which side of the debate they are arguing on.

Regards. Russell Morris. Australia.

Man made global warming is phony. Puny man, you can't change it one way or the other. As always, God is in control.

Jeff

follow the money!
There's alot of money being made saving the earth!

I don't know about anyone else, but I find that it is hard to get a handle on just what people's motivations are for loudly pushing whatever their point of view is.

"Follow the money!!!!"

When I try that, I look at the huge multi trillion dollar cash cows that the big end of town have at stake. Big Oil, Car industries, Big power companies, Banks, etc. These industries have HUGE vested interests in maintaining the status quo. These industries largely have governments in their pockets.

Maybe some global warming proponents also have vested interests in pushing their ideas. Certainly Al Gore is a politician. Since when have politicians ever been known for their objectivity?? Since when has Detroit ever been known for its social and ecologically responsible policies?? Since when have the big banks and financial institutions been known for its social responsibility??? ...... I find Al Gores Graphs just as doubtful as the ones John Coleman so glibly portrays without giving any proof of the validity of the data. Any skilled orator, and both John Coleman and Al Gore are skilled orators, can take a complex set of data, and make it look like it backs his own agenda, whatever it is.

I see little objectivity in either's presentations.

Science on the other hand, looks at finding out if the real observed and verifiable facts prove or disprove a hypothesis. If they don't, the hypothesis is either discarded, or amended until the observed facts mesh with the hypothesis. At which time it becomes a Theory. Something that is largely accepted as fact by the Scientific community. Some things go on to become Laws. ..... The law of thermodynamics, The laws of motion, etc.

Pointing out the universally accepted fact that Glaciers have advanced and retreated across the landscape as Ice Ages have come and gone, in no way proves whether or not the climate is currently being altered by human activity. It is totally irrelevant to the debate as to whether or not Human activity is altering the climate in any way shape or form. It doesn't prove anything. It is just a simple, universally held explanation for what is observed in nature. There is no debate here!!!!!

Most of the people loudly accusing each other of being "Deniers", or "Skeptics" or "Proponents" are NOT SCIENTISTS!! THEY USUALLY HAVE AN AXE TO GRIND, and are not being very objective.

The cry "FOLLOW THE MONEY!!" can equally be called out to villify the outspoken proponents on both sides.

I am not a Scientist. But I know how the scientific process works, and have worked in collaboration with scientists and scientific researchers in several completely different fields.

I suggest that a lot of people should take a deep breath, and try to find some information sources that are not contaminated by too much Media and vested interest driven hype.

The links provided by this forum seem to me to be just as biased as anything Al Gore has ever put forward.

So far, the best source of scientific information I have come across that is not either mind numbingly technical or just plain boring, is the book, as mentioned above, called "Fixing Climate - The story of Climate Science - and how to stop global warming" by Robert Kunzig & Wallace Broecker. It is available as a cheap paperback.

This book outlines the history, the people, their personalities, and the science of the evolving climate science issue, and points to some possible future consequences, and some possible future roads to take.

It is quite readable, and I would suggest that anyone who is going to proclaim that either side is absolutely right, or wrong, should at least be minimally conversant with the actual data, and mechanics behind the debate.

I am sure there are many other good sources of scientific information written for the layman out there. But this particular book is the most readable, and informative outline I have found to date.

Once you are conversant with the actual nuts and bolts of the issue, then you can make up your own mind.

To me,- and I am quite happy to change my mind if someone can come up with objective balanced scientific evidence to the contrary, it seems pretty clear that Man made global warming IS HAPPENING....

Peak Oil will soon be upon us, if it is not already. We will have to deal with this issue whether or not Global Warming is real.

Lets, as a society, stop burying our collective heads in the sand, and start objectively dealing with Peak Oil as a start.

And lets try to be a bit more objective, and stop throwing accusations of fraud around with wonton abandon, without first getting a handle on the facts of the matter. Too many people on both sides are behaving like spoiled kindergarten kids fighting over a bag of lollies.

For the first time in at least the last several million years, and since well before the last several glacial cycles, CO2 levels are increasing at an accelerating pace, and will soon be double the pre-industrial level.

Nobody disputes this.

This has never before happened since at least before the last several ice age cycles.

This WILL have an effect!! ........ How much of an effect, and what those effects will be, are still a bit fuzzy, and will unfold as time goes on. But the current scientific data, and direction are quite clear. It is only just starting to take hold.

Mankind decided to get together and solve the Chloroflourocarbon issue that was destroying the Ozone layer. No big deal. Just find an alternative!! And we did!!!

But that didn't seriously affect Big Oil, or other industries in the big end of town, who collectively have so many governments in their pockets. So we just went ahead and did it.

We need to do the same with our CO2 emissions too!! Regardless of who's vested interests may be in the way.

Hope this helps.

Russell Morris. Australia.

Mr. Morris, Australia seems to have glommed onto AGW with great energy. Presumably Australians are perfectly happy to destroy their economy, just on the off chance that AGW is real.

In America, we are not exploiting our own oil reserves, and the reason is sometimes the environmental damage (ugly oil rigs despoiling our wondrous natural sites, plus possible oil spills) and other times because oil is a fossil fuel and burning it creates CO2. Yet we continue to demand of ourselves that we become energy independent and quit sending American dollars to our enemies (all the while continuing our energy dependence and sending our dollars to our enemies).

Our politicians tout windmills, which use energy to produce, require maintenance to continue in service, and produce energy inefficiently. OLD windmills leak oil. But someone will make money making windmills. Still, it probably won't be Big Oil, and that's all that matters.

Currently there are proposals to erect windmills in Lake Michigan. There they can kill birds and interrupt the view of the [wealthy--yuck] people living and vacationing along Lake Michigan. Those landowners are as opposed to the project as the Kennedy family was about windmills in their sailboat lanes.

Our president is currently paying lip service to nuclear energy, after years of the Left's absolute hatred of anything nuclear. The environmentalists will surely put President Obama in his place soon enough.

For a while we were dabbling in fueling our automobiles with hydrogen, the only byproduct of which, they bragged, is nice, clean water vapor--a worse global warming contributor than CO2, unquestionably.

It is stated that one thing contributing to Global Warming is our too-clean air (something China does not worry about; kinda makes up for their refusal to play the Copenhagen games). Some have suggested dumping particles in the upper atmosphere to stop the sun's rays. Over the past decades, our industries have expended huge investments in scrubbers to clean up their emissions, which has resulted in the too-clean air which is now about to boil us all in a temperature increase of a degree or two.

My proposal to end global warming is so much less expensive than the proposals that politicians across the globe present, and should be easier to accomplish. Those industries that have so disastrously cleaned our air should be retrofitted with variable scrubbers that can allow a prescribed amount of particulate matter to escape into the air. When the exact correct amount is finally ascertained, the variable scrubbers can be programmed to emit just the right amount of particles. Under this system, man can finally control the climate, carefully emitting more particles when the globe warms, fewer when it cools.

As you say, no one really knows exactly what CO2 does, other than causing plants to grow and, using photosynthesis, to transform the CO2 into oxygen, which no one denies that we all need. Therefore, we should immediately begin drilling for our own oil here in the U.S., creating jobs and tax revenues to the states and to the federal government. Then burn that oil, creating the much-needed particulate matter than can stop the sun's rays, along with the CO2 to keep our crops growing so that we may feed the world.

Yes, mankind did solve the "chlorofluorocarbon issue" and save the ozone layer. We seem to have solved the "acid rain issue," too. We also seem to have solved the "Global Cooling/Coming Ice Age issue," as well. The strength of Mom Nature and the Sun pale when compared to mankind, huh? Or were these all hoaxes, invented to cause us to misallocate scarce resources and slow the growth of our economies?

Now, how do we address the volcanoes that spew more CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere than all of mankind's machinations? They MUST be stopped.

Glad to hear that you have got things right. This global warming scam is costing billions world wide and it is nothing but a hoax to line the pockets of a few.

First off I do not believe Mankind can change weather by normal use of carbon fuels. I do believe we need to be better stewards of the planet. I do not want to leave the planet worse off than when I got here but I do not believe we should put our needs behind that of some political movement that wants to take control of policy and to make financial decisions that go against State rights.

Common sense is what we need and there seems to be so little of it being used. It seems to me the glaciers have been melting since the end of the ice age. If you take ice out of the freezer it melts. As far as I know there were no hydrocarbons being used then. Did you ever consider the oceans are rising because of water run off from the land? We the people of this world have built buildings and millions of miles of roads that do not absorb water. Why are most municipalities requiring retention ponds? Because they can't handle the water run off. Lets build these ponds and reuse the water, simple just common sense. Potable water or the lack of will be more important in the near future, especially in the more densely populated areas. I think we need to wean our selves off oil simply because we eventually will run out . Lets use a combination of N Gas, wind, solar, water, ect... lets do it at a normal pace let the inventors of this world do their thing introduce these new gadgets at a pace that we can absorb and afford. There will be some inconveniences with any new technology but we will adapt as we always have so will mother nature and (the birds) (who are these people? Common sense folks!) We have to do something but taxing and gouging is not the way. Lets just use some common sense the way the settlers of this country and all the innovators of the world did before us...

I assure everyone here that no one loathes Al Gore more than I do--for many reasons, not just his farce of a Nobel prize for spouting something a growing majority of scientists had been saying for twenty or more years. I'm right of center, but I don't see how global warming can be seen as a hoax based on the majority of data--cataclysmic global warming, maybe; but who really knows? These are facts: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, CO2 levels are rising (at rates that vary, depending on the source), methane is an even more powerful greenhouse gas, huge amounts of methane are presently stored in sedimentary layers beneath oceans and in permafrost areas, and large sections of glaciers/ice shelves are melting and/or dropping into the ocean in Antarctica and Greenland--amongst other places (regardless of what they're doing in Wisconsin, or other micro-ecosystems). It's also an acknowledged sound theory that CO2 and methane levels were hundreds of times higher than they are now approximately 250 million years ago--long before man was here (of course, those levels nearly eradicated life on the planet; according to many scientists). The real point is that no one really knows what or when the tipping point will be, but it would take less than cataclysmic global warming to cause civilization as we know it major problems. I don't go along with the radical, supposed solutions of the far left; but it is obvious we need to move in a more renewable direction. Firstly, I know I'm not the only one (certainly amongst conservatives) tired of being bent over an oil barrel by people who obviously hate us--or the transfer of American wealth into places it really shouldn't be going. There is little mathematical, empirical evidence to support the "drilling for oil over here" so-called solution--that would simply be a drop in the bucket compared to our oil consumption (there simply ain't enough oil left for this to be a viable solution, anyway). Nuclear produces waste, and heat from controlled fission (to turn water into steam) is kind of a pathetic, inefficient way to milk energy from the atom anyway--until someone invents safe controlled fusion, nuclear is a "bridge" at best. It's also really kind of embarrassing to have solar-powered rovers scuttling around on Mars well beyond their expiration date, but still be burning long-dead plants and animals for fuel here on Earth (a planet closer to the Sun than Mars). As far as "destroying our economy" goes, the first country to improve various technologies enough to make renewable forms of energy economically viable on a large scale will have a huge competitive edge. So, regardless of pending doom, why not move in a greener direction now?

agreed!...i believe it is just another'slight of hand' to distract the public eye from all the other goings on...henny penny'the sky is falling'...i grew up in southern california and can say for a fact, things are better now than they were in the 70's pollution-wise...and i still am assaulted by organizations such as greenpeace (who i supported for years) in front of every store with their hand out...these 'grassroot' groups are now the same corporate beasts they once fought against...if you are truly concerned plant a tree, use what you have until it wears out without buying the same item in a new seasons fashion color...keeping the plant healthy is easier than you think, and certainly easier than some would have you believe...