Double Dip Recession, Housing and Savings

The Fair Tax would help greatly. www.fairtax.org

I have owned an employment recruiting and search firm for 35 years. Have been through 3 previous recessions. This is by far, starting in September 2008, the worst. I planned for a downturn - saw it coming in July 2008 - but never dreamed of such a national catastrophe...on employment and all other important matters.

From my vantage point in the employment industry, I can tell you that the employment scenario is at least twice as bad as being advertised.

Worse yet, there is not one single policy by the WH or Congress in place that will correct it. Actually the policies appear to be sinister plans to make it yet worse -- purposely.

November is bringing the most important elections in my lifetime, and perhaps in the history of our country. The many lies, spin, and perversions of the truth that we have seen in the last 18 months are truly sinful, shameful, and diabolical.

Why does it persist? Because of the actions, or inactions, of the press -- mostly progressive and liberal. People are duped.

It hurts to see so many people suffer because of these politicians who are piling case upon case of their agenda -- while close to 70% of the American people are opposed to it. They have turned Americans into pawns. In November we need to replace them!

Thanks for your efforts to restore America. Joe C.

This is sobering, but if there is a bright side, it's that the complacency allowed our current leaders to get elected, some time after time, should be well gone by now. I am very much encouraged by the fact that there are many who are speaking their minds and will no longer tolerate what is happening to us and our fellow citizens, and that outrageous political behaviors will hopefully soon be rewarded by many, many early political retirements.

I would love to see a day when we can get term limits in place, and if we can't get that today, then tomorrow we should remove the pensions and other perks that our politicians and civil servants believe is their "right" to have. The more we can make the public sector feel the pain of the private sector, the closer we are to getting and keeping their attention.

Finally, it would be a dream to also have a form of "malpractice" for politicians. Much of what started all this stemmed from actions made by those who "represent" us, and while they pound their chests and call for punishment for businesses and banks they are skillful in deflecting any attention to the roles they have played in causing this fire to start in the first place.

Thanks for tending the fire, Tim -- might need to get more wood to keep it hot until November!

The first election I worked in was 1964 for Barry Goldwater so I've been in the trenches a long time. I'm pessamistic enough to fear that we cannot change it at this late stage and stubborn enough to keep trying. The critical point will be- has government at all levels "bought off" enough people that they will outvote the producers every time. Everyone who works or REALLY wants to work must turn out to vote for those who support real working people, otherwise we will be outvoted for sure.

Ok let me count the ways. I have a daughter, who had major medical bills, we have over $1000 per month for combined family prescription copayments. We had to file bankruptcy and we just sold our house in short sale for $100,000 less than I paid 3 years ago. We lost half our projected retirement in the stock market thru a major investment company. Oh by the way, my spouse and I are 56 years old. I work for major company in Cincinnati, with health insurance. I worry for my childrens future. I have never felt more hopeless in my life.

One of the other problems that I have not heard anybody talk about is that in previous recessions people could pick up and move to another part of the country to find another job. This recession is different because people are geographically stuck due to the inability to sell their homes for a reasonable price.

RE: Chuck's scenario

Points 1, 2, and 3 are well taken.

Points 4 and 5 are indicators of some faulty thinking IMO. I'm not talking about Chuck's analysis, but the thought out there (and one well accepted, apparently) that a home should be a piggy bank, or that it would be well-appreciated at retirement just sets one up for failure.

A home is just that: a home. Not a bankable, sure fire, iron-clad, gold-plated "investment". The nature of real property is always cyclical, and to try timing it to one's retirement window (especially) is a recipe for an ill-tasting stew.

Point 6 is the tell-all. Damn right JQ is scared, and he'll remain so until there is some real economic positives, with jobs at the core, not a bunch of pablum from pols who don't know prosperity from posterior.

Just my .02

Tom V's comments about a home just being a home...I guess hindsight is 20/20 as they say...it seems almost the entire country believed their home was a good investment. How could we have known that there would be a real estate "crash"? We were duped for sure with all the lending going on to people who couldn't afford a house, and banks who told people they could afford a mortgage when they couldn't. But it all comes down to jobs. If we have a change in the administration there might be some hope...otherwise, I think we are in for another recession.

Recession?! Nope, no way we will keep it from a full blown DEpression....UNLESS we vote the morons out, and the new administration takes some drastic and fast action to save us years and years of additional pain and suffering.

Until we restore manufacturing in this great nation we are doomed to service jobs that don't always provide a liveable income. When NAFTA was passed many of our large companies either flew the coop or started buying parts for their "American products" from foreign countries. It was cheaper and provided more profit. They didn't have to deal with the likes of EPA, OSHA,etc. Our leaders need to look at how they tie the hands of businesses through taxes and compliance with various agencies.
If you haven't heard there is an organization that has a great idea for putting the right people in those seats in Washington. It is called GOOOH. Pronounced GO! It stands for get out of our house. Take a look at goooh.com. Thanks, Tim for keeping the homefires burning!

The reason that the Democrats are going to lose big in November is because they can't run on anything they have done in the last 2 years, stimulus, healthcare, economic reform, because none of those have worked and unemployment remains high. So they are left with bashing Bush and asking "just give us more time". Time for what, to totally destroy America? Jeff is right, vote the morons out.

The reason Obama is going to lose in 2012 is because he is so dishonest: "We will not rest until this crises is solved", then the next day he plays golf for 6 hours, has continuous parties at the White House, then goes on more vacations.

Remember: You Can't Fix Stupid, But you can vote THEM OUT.

I think Tom nailed it when he brought up NAFTA - THAT is what started the exodus of manufacturing here in the US... And it was not Bush that voted for it, that was good old Bill Clinton. And here we are with an even worse progressive democrat who has no clue at all. All of these bailouts, so-called stimulus attempts, and the universal heath care shoved down our throats by people who are not only unaffected by it but didn't even bother to read the thing... all of it was bass ackwards. The FIRST thing that they should have done is to create jobs. Once we had our citizens working again and contributing to the tax base then enact a viable and thought out universal heath care program that does not contain pork, that does not contain unconstitutional penalties for not participating, one that work for all and includes ALL. Instead all these morons have done is plunge us even deeper in debt by their ignorance and recklessness. Nov 2 you better believe I'm voting for them to be gone.

We can't change things unless the American people pull their head out of the sand. You have to get informed and involved with what is happening to this country. It's things like the "Fire Pit" that put out the truth, not the liberal news media. I lost most of my pension with United Airlines ( bankruptcy ) yet Obama wants to pass a bill and borrow money to fund the civil servants pensions....NO WAY. I find to many people that don't have a clue with what is going on and would rather watch reality tv than getting this country back on the rails our founding fathers layed down. Can't wait for Nov. 2.

My plan is simple - FYI – Fire your Incumbent. In the current run I have yet to vote for a resident office holder for any political position and I will continue to vote to throw out anyone currently in office up to and through November.
Also, while understanding where the discussion of the fall of the US manufacturing sector comes from, there remains a major issue is how that is determined. In the last 60 years employment in the sector has fallen as a percentage of the employed but has in fact has also held steady at about 14 million jobs. During that same time period, productivity has increased annually such that output in 2007 was more than 600% higher than in 1950. Yes, more machines are working but no less people were until the Democrats took over Congress. The entire recession problem falls squarely on the shoulders of the Frank and Dodd and their successful efforts to loan mortgage money to folks who could not afford the payments.

We have to resolve ourselves to the fact that our economy will simply not grow as it used to for quite awhile if ever again. We are not going to spend ourselves into prosperity. America will have to learn to be frugal again and save for things they purchase. That means a new car every 6 or 7 years instead of 3, tap water instead of bottled etc. etc. A 2% increase in GDP will be a very good year.

On the housing front we have to realize that we simply have overbuilt. We have a huge inventory of houses available and it will be difficult for people to buy them. People will have to save a healthy down payment to purchase them. People will have to realize that renting is not a sin or be ashamed about renting.

And speaking about saving, more and more Americans seem to be doing that these days. We need to be leery of national consumption tax, sales tax or value added tax (VAT) proposals. These provide a double tax on the money that people have saved. You paid a tax on the income that you put away and then you pay a tax when you spend that income. Kind of like getting you coming and going. It may also dampen consumer spending.

In short there is no easy fix for this mess and quite frankly I would not want to be the party in power in the next few years. Not only will the government have to deal with a $20 trillion national debt by the end of the decade (maybe a lot sooner) but the economy could be in for some pretty tough sledding. No wonder we saw some pretty prominent politicians bail earlier this year.

Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often (and for the same reason). Our founding fathers never planned for career politicians to be filling the seats in Congress and it's a practice that we need to end NOW! Vote 'em all out, regardless of party affiliation as both have failed to serve "We, the people" well (or, in most cases, not at all). They need to go and we need to keep repeating this until we get a Congress that actually listens to its constituents (for whom they work) and passes campaign finance and term limit legislation that will once and forever put an end to this innately corrupt system as it presently exists.

132 Republicans voted for NAFTA....nuf said!!! Two parties....same result!!!

Like so many folks we are stuck with a house that is in move in condition that we cannot sell. Our realtor said anything over $100,000.00 is not selling. This home was our retirement home.

My husband lost his job and is working at another for two years now. We live about four hours from where our retirement home is up for sale. Our home town is a GM town where oodles of workers have been laid off or terminated. There are hundreds of foreclosures and most folks are looking for the foreclosure prices, and are unwilling to pay full price for a house. Added to that, we have a son in college and have to pay for his flight training courses. We found out school loans are hard to get, and if we bought another small home where my husband is working, we would not be able to get college loans for our son. We were actually denied for one college loan cosignature for our son, because we were told that our son's credit score was not high enough. Wait a minute, he went straight from high school into an aeronautical college, he doesn't have an excellent credit rating yet!!!!

So, how does this mess get fixed? First, the spending has to stop! We have tightened our belts to get our son through college, we are living in a tiny rental house, and have decided if we have to just put up with this situation until retirement and our house doesn't sell that is what we will have to do. We are trying to get bills paid down, and we don't take a lot of trips and spend like we used to. We watch every dime we spend.

As a country, bankers need to stop giving home loans to folks who can't afford them, number one. Then we need to repeal healthcare, because that is going to add to the financial burden on Americans greatly. Americans need to take care of Americans right now in the trading, I agree, and we need to stop taking care of illegal aliens. The cost involved is bankrupting out country. I can't tell you how many illegals come to this country for their free healthcare.(Our state was one of the states targeted for raids on violent illegal offenders this week).

The money being spent by the White House alone in traveling expenses, and elaborate trips and vacations, should be cut. That alone will save the taxpayers a bunch of money.Since when is there supposed to be an open checkbook for the Administration to spend whatever they want to? I think the folks in the White House should have to make cuts just like the rest of the Americans tightening their belts, as an example to the country.

There will be more jobs if some employers know they are not going to be hit with taxes for healthcare and increased tax percentages this year. Let's REPEAL. Let's track what our congressmen and Senators are doing, and hold them accoutnable.

And,.. let's work more to protect America, and American citizens. They are what this country is about. There are times in American history when Americans have had to hunker down, and just worry about protecting and taking care of their own and this is one of those times.We have to get back on track.Personally, I see people saying the only hope we have right now to get out of this mess is CHANGE.

Shame on me for not being more involved in the past. Things will be different for America this time at the voting polls. I am actually encouraging people to go out and vote. I can't believe how many folks I have seen and talked to who haven't voted in years!

I don't know how to fix it all, but I know that I know how it needs to begin. ACCOUNTABILITY for those in government is what I am studying on the candidates I am voting for, and I will be following them to see that they keep their promises. I will no longer be dropping my oversight on them after elections.

Lastly, studying on energy and our country's resources has been a real eye opener. This green house thing has been very interesting, especially, reading up and finding out that most scientists laugh at what politicians feed the public about green house emititions.We all need to study up more, and keep our eyes and ears open. I find that a lot of what I hear on T.V. doesn't come anywhere near the actual truth. It does let me see all the politics involved.

So, I know where the BEGINNING point needs to be to see things turn. I also have hope that the young people I see who are getting furious at all the spending and government control, will be at those polls making a difference too come November.

VOTING: SECRETARY OF STATE (controls votes and voters)

Some may not feel that is an important position. IT IS! Whoever controls THAT POSITION controls the votes.

Think of AL FRANKEN and the extra votes that the Democrat Secretary of State "found" until Al Franken was "elected".

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/the_soros_connection_in_the_mi.html

The Secretary of State should NOT have SO MUCH POWER.

They already raised taxes here.
The water/waste is going up.
The elec. is going up again to support solar and wind power. People won't invest in those unless we make it worth their effort. So we must pay more. We are being compared to another country who does it.

Why!? Because we can't let some other country be more green than we are?!

Why NOW!? when we are so broke we can't even pay attention.

And the county has decided to raise property taxes even higher in the name of education. So if you are one of the lucky few who still own a home you get to donate more money to "education". Do they even audit educational institutions?

Here they are making the children bring additional items to school: toilet paper, mops, etc. Saw it on the news.

Someone needs to take the county's power away.

They taxed us to build a STADIUM. They decided we needed one and everyone got to pay for it--probably still are. We wouldn't want the poor football teams paying for it.

The cities always use the "temporary tax" excuse. They ALWAYS say it's for fire and police and education. It's NOT!

FairTax forever - and each of us work our fanny off

In response to your complaint that government is spending too much, I agree. The budget has been out of control since Reagan's trickle down theory. Give the money to the rich and super-rich and some of it will trickle down to the American workers and it would reduce the deficit.
Riiiiight! When Reagan entered office the deficit was about 800 billion. When he left office it had risen to 2.6 trillion. So much for trickle down.
But that economic failure didn't deter Bush and the republicans from bullying through a tax cut in 2000 for the rich and super-rich and the corporations including oil companies and health insurance companies amounting to over 860 billion. But they all agreed the American economy could not support such a tax cut for more than 10 years so they set it to expire in 2010 so the economy could recover from it. Now the republicans are calling that expiration of those burdensome tax cuts for the rich as tax increases as if they forgot they agreed to expire them to prevent damage to the economy. Looks like they don’t care about the economy any more. Looks like they only care about the millions being poured into their own pockets by the rich.
In 2002 or 2004 they gave Wall Street a similar present.
They bullied through a bill that allowed the Wall Street gamblers to use our savings accounts, pension plans, ira’s, in essence, our entire economy, as a buffer for their gambling bets. That's when the phrase "Too big to fail" came into the language of the banksters. That's also when big banks began gobbling up small banks and each other.
We had a money problem so we decided to take advantage of the refinancing idea and went to our local bank and refinanced. That's when I first heard the phrase "too big to fail". They tried to get us to take out a bigger loan than we could afford. He said they were too big to fail and we could get more money. I asked "What if we can't make the payments? You would take our house, right?" He said "We're too big too fail" I asked him again and he said yes. I asked him "So, why do you want our house?" He said “We can always sell it”. I told him that he was irresponsible. I wanted to cancel the refinance but my wife said no, we need it for now. We'll pay it off as soon as possible. We got the loan for the amount we needed. I can imagine the dollar signs that lit up in the eyes of those who were offered much more money than they could afford and trusted the bankster and were not as cautious as I was.
I remember our first mortgage where they told us we couldn’t borrow more than 15% of our combined income to insure they would get their money back and we would be able to make our payments. Now they don’t care about that. They can always get the government to bail them out as they already did. THAT’S IRRESPONSIBLE! And a scam. The banks were and are trying to scam the people.
Then Chase gobbled up our local bank and sold off our mortgage to some horsesh*t outfit in Texas called “Home” something. They couldn't keep their paperwork straight. They charged us late charges when we had the cancelled check showing they had cashed the check 2 days before the due date. We couldn't get rid of them faster.
I got an ad from Amerimortgage in the mail. I called to see what they could do. I told them I was looking for a lower rate and the amount we wanted with my wife as co-owner.
They sent us papers with twice the rate on twice the amount and without my wife on it. Another example of "Too big to fail". I shredded it. (We finally ended up with CitiMortgage and are very satisfied with them)
The banksters are now PREDATORS! They want to grab houses and put people out on the street.
Of course, we can't forget NAFTA and the way they have been sending our jobs to other countries leaving Americans high and dry. And the republicans expect everyone to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and get a job after they sent the jobs to foreign countries!
Today we see the results of the Bush's republicans trickle down tax cuts for the rich and the banksters and Wall Street using our economy as a cushion for their gambling.
Bush and the republicans are the ones that put through the Patriot Act taking away our rights and freedoms in the Constitution.
I would suggest you try watching MSNBC weekdays from 2pm to 8pm (the shows repeat after 8pm) for the truth. We certainly aren’t getting any truth from the republicans.
My main disappointment with Obama and the Democrats is that they have not stood up and slapped the sh*t out of the republicans for their economic attacks against the American people. He did not push for single-payer. He has not gone far enough in restoring the freedoms that Bush took from us with the Patriot Act.
He has also disgraced the integrity of America by not prosecuting the war criminals, Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rove. Afghanistan was one thing and the whole world agreed. Iraq was quite another as we all now know. Our international stand against war criminals is destroyed.
Bush and his cronies lied to the whole world costing us trillions of dollars and the unnecessary spilling of the blood of our brave young soldiers. It also cost us the respect of the world. We are now a predator nation.
They murdered hundred of thousands of Iraqi people. Why! Because the oil companies wanted control of Iraqi oil and Bush is an oil man.
They super-rich don’t care that American soldiers are being killed and maimed every day there. They make money with American blood. And they are not even embarrassed about it which shows the kind of contempt they have for the American people. The American people are just cannon fodder for the moneymaking schemes of the rich.
The Democrats are supposed to be the party of the people. The republicans are the party of the rich who fill the republican pockets with millions and they, in turn, bully through laws that allow the rich to suck billions from our treasury. 7 billion for Halliburton! FOR WHAT? For a shabily built police station that was condemned as uninhabitable the day it was opened for business? 12 billion was sent to Iraq in hundred dollar bills in large crates and disappeared. Where? Did it go to pay the insurgents and Taliban and Al-Qaida so they would keep fighting and keep us there for a decade? The republicans are bought and paid for traitorous whores. They are not even embarrassed about it. They even brag about it. The super-rich who think they own us are traitors to the Constitution and the freedoms it represents.
I’m getting more and more afraid that this may lead to a real 2nd American Revolution. More and more people are waking up and becoming aware of what is happening. I don’t know what we will end up with but I’m afraid it is coming.
After the political debacle that has gone on for all these years and the lies about "Death Panels" (the only death panels are the health insurance companies when they decide not to cover you for "pre-existing conditions") and other lies they have bullied around I can't see myself EVER voting for another republican as long as I live. I hope there will someday arise a party of common sense that I can vote for. The Tea Party is not it. They may develop into it but now they have too many Nazi’s in it.
New World Order? That’s what Hitler said.

I love your web site. Keep up the great work!

Bob, the other Bob

>>>Greed is the Achilles Heel of capitalism

This first comment is directed to "Bob, the other Bob". Yes, finally someone has written something here that resembles reality. Thank you.

Does anyone remember Ross Perot, saying about NAFTA: "That sucking sound you hear is the sound of American jobs going overseas", ,, or it was something to that effect. He was right afterall, eh?

The reason we are in a mess is because many good paying jobs have disappeared. There are many different reasons for this, but certainly a big reason is that the jobs were moved overseas to save money by paying foreign workers far lower wages for doing the same work.

So, ROI goes up, , but what about the people left unemployed? That never figures into the financial ROI equations, does it? "They'll find another job; tey should go back to school; they are not our problem, . . " Etc., etc.

So, what about people in their 50's or older? They are supposed to go back to school, paid for how?, and compete for jobs with 20 somethings in a field in which they have no experience? "Really?" ,, as Glenn Beck often says. All of that IS our problem. If it was figured into the ROI, then it would be less likely to happen.

I know nothing is gauranteed. Communism tried to do that. Obviously we live in an imperfect world. But if the rich keep getting richer, (all of that ROI), and the middle class falls into the lower class, things are not going to turn out well for anyone.