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Dream Act, Illegal Aliens and Belmont Firearms

The 111th Congress is about to wrap up its business. In January 2011, the 112th Congress rolls up its sleeves. But our current representatives are bound and determined to win over eight figures worth of future voters.

Most citizens are busy and stressed out with Christmas just 15 days away. The members of Congress are hoping we're not paying attention. Isn't that crazy? They used to be able to get away with that, but not anymore with 24/7 cable news and this wonderful thing called the Internet.

You do realize some cultures place a very high value on loyalty, don't you? It's a noble and highly prized hallmark if you ask me. I remember clearly a conversation I had with an employee of a major tool manufacturer about ten years ago.

We were talking about the influx of Spanish-speaking workers into the USA construction marketplace and how this tool manufacturer was marketing to that segment. This man was trying to explain to me about brand loyalty and how it transcended into everyday life with those folks who were coming to the USA from below the 32nd parallel.

I don't know if what this man told me is true. But I do know all about loyalty. Let's assume, for sake of discussion, that it's true.

If this is the case, you can see why certain members of the current Congress are so interested in creating a fast track to US citizenship for the illegal aliens that are on our soil.

If they became citizens by cutting the line - remember, we have a process that millions have used to become legal US citizens - then these new fast-trackers would become VERY loyal to those that gave them this highly valued thing.

The deep psychological trigger of reciprocity would be clicked with each future election for generations. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand this, as you succumb to reciprocity on a daily basis, assuming you're not a psychopath who has no feelings.

I'm upset at virtually all of our elected officials, past presidents, President Obama and countless others about the illegal alien situation. It's unthinkable that we don't control our borders. Have you been paying attention to the news lately? Are you aware of the American citizens over the past few years who've gone *hiking* near North Korea, Iran and other countries? What happens to those folks?

I'll tell you what happens. All you have to do is read what I saw at the Belmont Firearms Gun Range where I go to practice my marksmanship. Based on what I read in the news, I'd say this is all pretty accurate.

It's sickening. It's unbelievable and it's unacceptable. I'm not talking about what OTHER countries do, I'm talking about what WE do to people that cross our borders illegally.

illegal alien.jpg


I have heard lots of news commenting on this issue. I don't care what side anyone takes on the issue, I just don't see why we need the added expense right now. Everything seems to be urgent with this administration and congress.

Donald C. Cramer on December 10, 2010 8:47 AM

And, God forbid, don't shoot those poor illegal border crossers in the butt, or you'll go to jail....

Frank on December 10, 2010 8:53 AM

There's a line in the old Eagles song, "The Last Resort:"

" ... call someplace paradise; kiss it goodbye."

Seems that lesson is lost by each succeeding generation.

Keith Sansalone on December 10, 2010 8:54 AM

And, Tim, thank you for referring to it as the CHRISTmas season...It is about the birth of Christ, not the birth of "holiday" Merry Christmas to you!!

Frank on December 10, 2010 8:55 AM

Illegal means illegal. When you or I do something
illegal, we get punnished for it in some form or
another. Our forefathers fought for us to have our
rights. I don't want the illegal aliens trying to
take them away from us, or having to support them.
Why don't they work in the companies in their
country that they took away from our country?
English is our language. If you do come here
learn how to speak it and do so. Border patrol
could create a lot of jobs.

Tim H. on December 10, 2010 8:59 AM

My solution? Bring back ALL of our troops from overseas (currently around 365,000) and station about 100,000 of them (in four rotating shifts) every 50 yards along our entire southern border, vigorously enforce our current immigration laws and fine/imprison employers who hire illegals. If we take away their ability to earn a living and seal our border the ones that are here will leave and others won't be tempted to enter our sovereign nation illegally. This would also serve to reduce/eliminate the illegal drug problem along our southern border. It's time we used that enormous defense budget to actually benefit the taxpayers who foot the bill.

Rob Robinson on December 10, 2010 9:04 AM

Well, an early Merry Christmas wish to you Tim. Thank you for allowing freedom of expression on your blog.

I hope you have more love in your heart than it appears from this post of yours. It sounds like you want to go down to the border and shoot everyone who comes across.

I'm a U.S. citizen because my great-grandparents migrated from Italy. They came across on a ship, which controlled their entrance into the border via Ellis Island, because that was the way it was done and they had no other practical choice.

But if Europe was connected to the U.S. by a physical border like Mexico is, instead of being separated by an ocean, do you really believe that all of the Euro immigrants who came to the U.S. in the early 1900's would have come over legally? Or perhaps, maybe some of them would have crossed illegally, just like the Mexicans are now?

Honestly, I'm not happy about all of the illegals that come across. But, what would you do about it - and more importantly, how much would it cost to do it? It would take government intervention. But no matter what they've already tried to do, it's not that effective because the border is so long - and connected, and impossible to patrol, without spending an impractically large amount of money.

So, are you volunteering to go down there and shoot them as they come across?

Perhaps a better way would be to require employers to document their workers? We have so many illegals because many employers are willing to hire these illegals and turn the other cheek to the legitimacy of their citizenship, which encourages these people to keep coming across. This would be much less expensive than trying to build a wall around the border.

In the mean time, businesses get people who are willing to work hard for a low wage. Isn't that what America has always been about?

I'll leave off with a comment that comes from someone else - regarding the financial crisis. I know this is changing the subject, but I couldn't resist, because this person really articulates his opinion well, and I happen to agree with it. So, the rest of my post is a copy of a statement from someone named Rollo Tomassi.

. . . . "The quaint notion of "personal responsibility" as activated like the "Manchurian Candidate" to take the focus off what highly organized, legally sanctioned, deregulated groups did to America's middle class. I'm talking about the legal fictions that span the globe seeking windfall profits and minimizing their taxes, lead by cartels, syndicates and CEO's who get compensated based on the absurd notion that a company's market cap has anything to do with their personal responsibility, beyond dialing the phone, taking a meeting and hiring the usual suspects to paper them up another over-leveraged secondary offering (ie, Goldman, Morgan, Bear, CS First Boston, Mary's Lunch, Lehman, Oppie, Pru, etc.. what Goldman's CEO (Lloyd) openly called the "7 families" comically acknowledging their collective wrong doing).

There are plenty of Americans who didn't take liar loans, gamble with their life's savings, or believe any of the brainwash rationalizations being broadcast from GE's PR wing, CNBC. And plenty who could do very little about it, even as they watched their wages, pensions, health benefits, opportunities, and nation decline to the horizon.

Plenty found themselves trapped in a cleptocratic nightmare, witnessing a massive slow motion, 300 million car pile up with no way to get off the Interstate, as politics in America were reduced to Cola wars, whether it was the Ronnie/Donnie Regan/Reagan-Bush/Clinton syndicate ushering the parade of Golf carts off the cliff, or the clean up guy flying all over the world to mop up.

America's founders gave congress the power to tax and regulate imports for a reason. Teddy busted trusts for a reason. Joe Kennedy set up the SEC and securities regulations for a reason, as Glass-Steagall pulled the claws from banks doing business on American soil to keep them from hurting the economy.

Bank margins are 35% these days, which is more than double their historical profits.

Dismantling America one regulation at a time at the direction of lobbyists over the last 30 years has shown itself as a policy on par with war profiteering, the selling out one's own country for enough profit to buy a giant summer house on that lake in France where they've all gone to sun themselves like alligators since Nixon.

Make no mistake: Alexander Hamilton has had no equal in American history, in spite of what Bill Clinton imagined and said of Robert Rubin."

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:

Lou, I have lots of love, but little for those who are selfish. Illegal aliens are just that. Plain and simple. They only care about themselves. They don't care about our laws, and they don't care about the others who enter our country legally.

And your comment about me shooting them, that's just way too over the top. Why would you say something so incendiary? That's really bad form.

What would I do about it? I love Ron Robinson's solution here on this page. There's nothing but upside with respect to protecting our borders from illegals, terrorists or other foreign enemies.

Shame on you for implying that I want to shoot illegal aliens. Talk about Christmas spirit. My oh my. I'll let the Court of Public Opinion weigh in on your comments.

Lou on December 10, 2010 9:06 AM

I'm all for Immigration. It's the work ethic of those who come to these shores that serve as an inspiration for innovation - as long as it's through the current legal process. And forgive me, if someones first act as a new person in my world is to break the law, or steal from me, then I will never trust them. They will have already shown what kind of person they are. I say get them out like we did after WWII (12 million I think) and send the current administration with them.

Frank P. on December 10, 2010 9:09 AM

It is unthinkable the privaleges these illegals get. We have our own US citizens living in poverty that cannot get as good of a deal as them. Not only do they move our jobs to other countries and lose our jobs, but illegals sneak into our country and take what few jobs there are available because they will work for pennies on the dollar. Shame on the companies that hire them.

Terry Alford on December 10, 2010 9:16 AM

Politicians don’t care about the country. They only care about themselves and getting re-elected; or in advancing their agenda. Grant amnesty to 20 million illegal immigrants – 20 million Democrat votes (well, maybe 10 million if only half of them vote). So if the politicians (government) won’t close the borders, who will?

Charles K. on December 10, 2010 9:17 AM

Illegal is illegal, I guess congress has a diferent definition.

tom on December 10, 2010 9:17 AM

I agree with Tim, illegal is illegal. That said, our immigration policies as a whole need to be addressed. Illegals being allowed to stay while some of the best and brightest in the world who come to the US legally for the best higher education in the world are thrown out after they finish school.

One of the reasons America is great is because historically it has been a magnet for the best and the brightest from all over. This county's place in the world is in part a function of the character of its content and the intellectual property we bring in dealing with the issues of today.

Mark Billings on December 10, 2010 9:22 AM

I have followed the the issues on your "fire pit" for the last few months.I very strongly support the need to DEFEAT the dream act. I am certainly not opposed to immigration in this country. Both of my parents were LEGAL immigrants and earned their citizenship.
Why have any borders at all if we are not going to control who crosses them? Illegal immigration absolutely needs to be stopped at the border. After we get that under control, perhaps then we can deal with the people who are here illegally.
I am also very concerned with the very recent actions by this current congress dealing with the extension of the current tax rates. It seems neither party has gotten the message. The current bills being considered are not available yet so we have no idea what is included. It appears that they are still loaded with wasteful spending and special interest pork items. AND, it seems many republicans are right nin the middle of it.
When are they going to get the message we sent on the last election???
We need to be able to see what is in the legislation before they vote on it
What happened to the promise of 72 hours

John K Hyland on December 10, 2010 9:26 AM

You could have listed what Mexico does with illegal immigrants. I remember when the Mexican president was asked he said they do not allow illegal immagrants.

Bob R. on December 10, 2010 9:27 AM

While most of what is printed in the picture is true some of it is misleading. I'm all for insuring illegal immigrants "jumping through all the hoops" to get legal citizenship in the U.S. just like so many of our ancestors.

Our borders are too loose and when the average citizen stands up for those rights and takes matters into his/her own hands they are arrested and charged. What's wrong with that picture?

I spent many years in the military to protect our freedoms. I swore an oath "to protect against enemies foreign and domestic" and I still carry that oath.

Our politicians are too worried about getting re-elected than about serving their constituents. They need to hear what we're saying and carry it to Washington. So what if the message is not well received at least they are saying what we want.

Government is too worried about regulating everything. Fraud is rampant. Don't change everything, clean-up what is wrong and eliminate fraud in the current system.

Thurl Carmany on December 10, 2010 9:31 AM

I am an Irish immigrant living in this wonderful, beautiful country. Myself and my husband became citizens together in 1998. We received our green cards through a lottery several years before that. There is nothing on this earth to urge me to vote for a democrat. I thank God every day that we can live and raise our children in the U.S. When people say Oh, you're Irish, I say actually I am American but I was born in Ireland. I love this country more than many many American born citizens do. Sadly, too often, immigrants who have lived here for years put America down and hold their native country in such high regard, yet they continue to live here. Why? They wouldn't dream of becoming citizens.
God Bless and Merry Christmas

Carol O. on December 10, 2010 9:34 AM

Why don't we just annex Mexico? t could become the 51st state. They have lots of oil, which we could use, and we won't have to spend so much money controling our border.

Anita on December 10, 2010 9:44 AM

In the 60's when I was in the service, people from the Phillippines could do time in the military and become a citizen. It was a way to earn it. I'm good with that part of the "Dream Act". Not so sure I want to pay for someones college education so they can become a citizen. It's hard enough for Americans to "earn" a college education.

Mike P on December 10, 2010 9:45 AM

Tim. I have not even read any of the comments yet, but my first reaction to the item containing what would happen if crossing other boarders is why not print this and flood Washington with them...signed an American Patriot.

Richard on December 10, 2010 9:50 AM

Need more people in office like the governor of Arizona.

Sarah on December 10, 2010 9:57 AM

Hi Tim, and Merry Christmas. I've read all of the postings, and am shocked at what Rob Robinson said about your wishes for the illegals. I'm also concerned that he thinks more of the cost of enforcing our existing laws, than the resulting costs of non-enforcement. All one has to do is look at what has added tremendously to our debt. How can we support these illegals; free schooling, food, housing, ect., when we can't even feed and clothe our own legal citizens? Shame on your Rob! You sound like a liberal Democrat.

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


I'm hoping you've made a mistake. The ways names are displayed on this blog can be confusing. The author of each comment is always placed BELOW what they added to the blog.

Here's what Ron said:

"My solution? Bring back ALL of our troops from overseas (currently around 365,000) and station about 100,000 of them (in four rotating shifts) every 50 yards along our entire southern border, vigorously enforce our current immigration laws and fine/imprison employers who hire illegals. If we take away their ability to earn a living and seal our border the ones that are here will leave and others won't be tempted to enter our sovereign nation illegally. This would also serve to reduce/eliminate the illegal drug problem along our southern border. It's time we used that enormous defense budget to actually benefit the taxpayers who foot the bill."

Ron's name is above Lou's post. I'm thinking your comment was really directed at Lou.

George E. on December 10, 2010 10:09 AM

Thankyou so much Tim for all that you do for us and our country by providing a forum for us.
We have a process to become citizens and we should not forget it. If we pass a bill like this what does it say about those who did it right?

Russ on December 10, 2010 10:09 AM

I agree we need to close our borders and send the illegals back to their home. If they want to live here then they can go through all of the proper channels and come in legally if they qualify. I live in Texas and this is a major problem. Our government doesn't care because most of them don't have to deal with it on a daily basis and they want the votes. I have friends who are Hispanic and they want the borders closed too. Their families came in the right way and they don't like what it is costing us to support these illegals. Why should we have ballots and everything printed in Spanish at a great expense? We don't have them printed in German, French, Chinese or any other language. Those people learned to read and write English. If you don't care enough to learn our language then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Someone mentioned the cost to close our borders. If you took all of the money we are spending every day to support these illegals we should be able to cover most if not all of the expense. Not to mention cost of finding, convicting and imprisoning the criminals that are coming across our borders with their drugs and human trafficking etc.

Linda on December 10, 2010 10:12 AM

Merry Christmas, Tim!
I believe the note posted at Belmont Firearms is sadly true. There is another myth perpetuated by the "cooperative government media" in the illusion that people crossing our borders illegally are just simple folks looking for a better life; and what better time to do this than Christmas.

Many illegals crossing the Mexian border are part of the dangerous drug cartels, and many not even from Mexico. A large percent are from the Mid East, South America and elsewhere around the world. They know that is our weakest point of entry. I have seen the statistics. Note that these people do not choose our Canadian border to enter.

People forget that America has legal steps to immigrate and we welcome the immigrants who do so and desire to take the oath of citizenship and acclimate.

It is definite reciprocity to not only promise the moon, but in the language of your choice.

Linda B. on December 10, 2010 10:34 AM

This is a tough one and one can agree with everyone's comments but why do we have only illegal mexican's in the US and a few stray others? Because they harvest the produce of this nation. Maybe citizens on extended (over 90 days) unemployement could be pressed into service in exchange for a check.

John in Dryden, MI on December 10, 2010 10:35 AM

You made an interesting statement about how thankful we should be for having the internet as a tool to communicate with one another, so true. Enjoy it while we can because it is ever so clear to me that this administration (using the various heads of agencies like the EPA, FCC, and the Internet czar) will be doing everything they can to eliminate this as a means of communicating ideas of freedom and minimal federal government. Merry Christmas to You and your Family. Thank you for your contribution to our Country's traditions. God Bless America!!!

Tom M. on December 10, 2010 10:46 AM

Rob Robinson (Editor's Note - I believe this author is directing this to Lou, not Ron)...I also am a product of Italian Immigrants who endured much to give their future generations a better life...not come here first then demand.
To suggest another would shot another as you did is not helpful to be kind, but I understand it is maybe your also feeling of helplessness concerning this situation.
May I suggest some or any other solution and keep this volatile/emotional subject possibly civil?
I also have no answer...What if this was WW 2 all over again..would we round up another group of people as we did and place them in internment camps as possible sympathizers? Where was the outcry then about Human Rights...our Constitution and Declaration of Independents? Where were the Socialists, Communists, Far left, Progressives and liberal Democrats or many others for surely they must have existed?
Our boarders must be controlled first...and an orderly, and a controlled process be instituted.
Now what do we do with the millions already here?
We should publicly state we will send all illegally here back by such and such a date, and if still here illegally, deportation will take place and the country of origin charged or impose economic sanctions against that country of origin.
Immediately stop all pathways of money transfers to other countries by illegal's or by other groups, as much as possible, and if Bank of America for one example, Money Orders etc, for one of many others methods continue to do such, they also will be fined or some other penalty imposed.
One must be fair to all Americans 'who have' legally entered our country and became not honor them are not honoring who and what we are as a nation....We cannot continue to give and give without totally losing our identity as America, for nowhere else on earth that I am aware has any nation given so much for so many....simply read Tim's Item on what others do....

Richard Coppola on December 10, 2010 10:50 AM

I am concerned with the costs associated with illegals like everyone else. Anyone coming into our United States should be welcome if done in the legal manner. The "melting pot" is what made America great.
My bigger concern is the votes that will be bought if the "Dream Act" is approved. We have had enough of the liberalism that abounds no matter whether it is Democrat or Republican. We need to go back to the drawing board of common sense and start anew.

Wayne on December 10, 2010 10:50 AM

Tim, I want free college for three children and seven grandchildren. I'm thinking of taking everyone out of the country and sneeking back in, and getting caught so we all can get free health Ins, free education and free food.
Do you know of any other freebies that I would be entitled to?
For us stupid, hard working, legal American's
Just venting , please excuse my sarcasm.

Clay Lamb on December 10, 2010 11:13 AM

I wore the uniform of the American military, I paid for my college and my kids college education, I was a third generation auto worker, I buy American whenever possible and shop only where they promote that concept. It is time to put up or shut up. This is America and we can be the greatest place on earth. Obey the laws, enforce the laws demand we build manufacture and buy only American products. Our culture is held together by these concepts and speak English be cause that is also what helps us be American by comunicating with each other.That is what being American is. I am proud of it and if you want to come here legally you too will be proud of that or you would not, or should not have come here in the first place.

Earl Baker RVN 1968-1970 on December 10, 2010 11:26 AM

I agree with Rob who wants to bring the soldiers home to protect our borders. I saw an e-mail recently showing soldiers out in the cold away from their families and in grave danger. Yet the soldier speaks and says they are doing what they this do for our freedom. The soldier refuses to come in to warm himself by the fire. They are brave and strong, but while they are serving our nation abroad, freedom is being lost here at home. I believe we have the troops in the wrong place. I have a horror story about how my rights and my husband's rights are being taken away by the Prescription Drug program. If this program is any preview of the controls the government can have...just wait until Obamacare gets going. We have lost nearly $1800 because Aetna will not admit that we are dis-enrolled. I'm too old to be worried about the details of some law passed by folks who don't read bills. I could give more details, but I'm too tired after what seems like a zillion letters, faxes, and phone calls.

Edna Earle on December 10, 2010 12:03 PM

I too have compassion for the millions of illegals who came to better their lives, but they should have done it the right way. It is America falling down on the job,not securing the borders and not enforcing or current laws, that has allowed this to go on for years. I don't have a solution but it must be one that is fair to the families that now reside here and are living a peaceful life. It is the greed of corporate America,providing low wages to the neediest, that influenced so many to come and also the rich folks who found household help at a pitance of what it should have cost. So the blame for the situation is on both sides. The solution will have to be on our lawmakers in congress (God help us all )

colleen davis on December 10, 2010 12:13 PM

Tim, I'm responding to your reply to my original comment. You are the one that mentioned a gun range in context of a discussion about illegal immigrants. That was not a coincidence. You did that to invoke responses, and I did just that. :) If that was not your intention, then please explain to me why you mentioned your shooting and a gun range in context of the topic of illegal immigrants. . .. I wonder if Jesus would have belonged to a gun club?

You did not comment on my assertion that - if Europe was attached to the U.S. like Mexico, many of our immigrant forefathers might have also come across illegally.

Rob Robinson's idea, with all due respect, is totally unrealistic, and anyone who actually believes for real that such an idea would ever be done - let alone be effective, should be living on another planet, if they are not already.

If you want to discuss realistic solutions, it becomes very complex, and to the point - very expensive. Most of these responses seem to suggest that fixing the illegal immigration problem could be done by waving a magic wand. There is a new Harry Potter movie out for those folks.

But one possible solution in theory is actually not that complex, although it would still be expensive: Make employers verify worker's citizenship.

If the illegal immigrants were not able to work - and not get governmental support, they would go back home and not many new ones would come across. Notice I said - no governmental support.

Ths vast majority of them come here to work - and they are finding work, and that is the reason why there are here. That is an equation with two parts: the workers - and the employers. If employers are required to prove worker's citizenship, it might quell the flow of illegals. Of course, this still requires a governmental informational infrastructure to make it work. That in turn would require a potential invasion of privacy issue, gathering a lot of personal information in order to verify citizenship; and I know most all of you here would balk at that. It would also raise expenses for the employers.

One last comment - to Earl Baker. If you were an auto-worker, then you were a union member, is that correct? What is your feeling about unions in this country?

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


Have you been hitting the spiked egg nog a little early? That was a joke.

Let's look up at the top of the page and see exactly what I wrote:

"All you have to do is read what I saw at the Belmont Firearms Gun Range where I go to practice my marksmanship."

So what is the context of the sentence? Simple, how else would I explain where I took the photo that you see in the post? I was stating a fact. If I had seen that piece of paper at Aubuchon Hardware store in downtown Meredith, that's what I would have said.

But you extrapolated, and I must say mistakenly, that I want to shoot/kill illegal aliens. That's also a fact.

That's why your comment is out of line and you're way off base here.

And as for being on another planet, I can tell you right now that our military, using technology they don't tell us about, can absolutely patrol and protect that border.

For goodness sakes, other countries that don't have the resources we have protect and patrol their borders.

Lou, I'm afraid on this day, you've said some things that have quite a few shaking their heads. Maybe you should do what you said earlier this week.

Lou on December 10, 2010 12:20 PM

HAL-A-LUYA BROTHER!!!! What part of illegal don´t they understand? But they profit by it. Follow the money. Stop feeding the birds & they will go away. Enjoy the Holidays.

John F Filon on December 10, 2010 12:43 PM

I have a simple solution to the illegals coming in as well as the ones already here.
1) Seal the border (allowing for a guest worker program similar to 40 years ago)
2) Require legal ID cards
3) Fine all employers caught knowingly hiring illegals (Meg Whitman hired, through an agency an illegal with a valid license, paid her $23.00 and hour and was castigated for her actions)
4) After 1-2 years, allow all remaining illegals to get legal ID cards, stay in the US after paying fines and pledging to pay all taxes like legals do.
5) They will NEVER be allowed to vote because they came here illegally. ( There goes the democrats reason for championing illegal amnesty)
6) Eliminate all welfare and "paid for" medical support for illegals. Use the money to enhance sealing the border. (Notice I did NOT say eliminate their health care, just the government paid portion of it).
It takes guts to do the above, so don't look for it to ever happen with the clowns we've elected (especially in California).
Merry Christmas to all!

Terry Foster on December 10, 2010 12:46 PM

Politicians over the years might as well sent Mexicans special invitations to "COME ON OVER". Sure they were illegal but so what? The concerned politicians didn't want to jeopardize any possible votes. I will say that Obama and his accomplishes have brought this illegal immigration to a level that one could never imagine of a President. To bring over Mexican President Calderon to wail on Arizona is beyond crazy, and then get a standing ovation from the Democrats during a session of congress. It's like these people have no shame when buying votes. !) The border has to be sealed 2} The immigration procedure has to be quick and efficient. 3) All illegals have to get back into line to become a legal immigrant and then citizen. ---Can this be so hard to figure out once the politics is out of the way?

Maynard E. on December 10, 2010 1:03 PM

I, like so many others who have commented here, am no opposed to immigration. What I AM opposed to is ILLEGAL Immigration. What do we not understand about ILLEGAL?

We punish American citizens (whether natural born or naturalized) when they break the laws of our land and yet we reward the illegal aliens... should I say DUH??

Having said that, I basically agree with what Terry Foster posted on Dec. 10... well said. The only thing I might add is we should find some sort of punishment for those "lawmakers" who have circumvented our legal system for their own benefit. Since we can't seem to punish them as a group we should certainly try to use some common sense and not continue to re elect them.

Faye on December 10, 2010 1:21 PM

As a Canadian I can empathize to a degree with the the issue about "illegal" immigrants. We do not have the problem to anywhere near that of the USA. One is torn between the emotion that our nations were populated by aliens from all over the planet, and therefore we must have a natural tendency toward acceptance of "difference" and the changing faces of our populations and yes even the acceptance of new language dynamics. I would therefore simply opine that the rule of law must be applied to protect those that are legally awaiting approval to register as new Americans or Canadians for that matter! It is to be hoped however that the spirit of "loving thy neighbor as thyself" would be the ruling emotion, when dealing with the many and varied challenges in immigration, the American government is facing today, as a result of historically inept political policy from the past. Certainly corporate interests have added to this problem and this remains the real "fly in the ointment" of your immigration policies. I believe that if "capital advantage" were removed from the dynamic, the problem would quickly disappear!

James M. Convey on December 10, 2010 2:01 PM

It's been done before in our history. Deport all of them.

Robert Donegan on December 10, 2010 2:27 PM

Things are so topsy-turvey in our country and there are so many issues that need to be addressed, it is like trying to catch and tame a huge octopus or squid! As others have already stated, illegal means just that, illegal. Good grief, Charlie Brown, what is so hard about understanding that? Also, Congressmen/women should be representing us and not there for the money and the perks. They are our employees, for crying out loud! I don't work for them; they are supposed to be working for me. If they don't obey the laws of the land, they need to removed from office! As for the green issue, my wife is part American Indian and she always says that we need to leave the beach/forest/etc. as we found it...but not at the expense of humans. We kill babies and save animal life. Both are important, but I have more interest in saving human life.

Ed Cook on December 10, 2010 2:54 PM

If the companies want cheap labor then they should sponsor all these people. That means housing, medical, civil actions, etc. How many companies would be willing to put their necks out? I never hear any politician mention sponsorship-only giving out some form of benefit or amnesty law at tax payers expense.

I am first generation American, both my parents came from Scotland. My Uncle sponsored them. If my parents incurred any civil penalties or public welfare, he was on the hook. My wife is from the Philippines and we had to wait five years for her to become a naturalized citizen. We did it the right way. All these bleeding hearts for illegal immigrants should step up to the plate and sign the dotted line. We already accept more legal immigrants than the next four countries combined. Both political parties are rsponsible for exploiting this issue.
In closing the immigration system should be based upon what's beneficial to our country-not the other way around.

Jim Mc Connell on December 10, 2010 4:42 PM

Tim, this is such a heated issue, especially here in SoCal. Back in 1994 the people of Cali overwhelmingly passed prop 187.
It was later ruled unconstitutional and any appeals on this decision was blocked by Gray Davis. I often wonder if prop 187 stuck, would Cali be in the mess it is in today? I am sure we would be in a mess but maybe not the dire straits we're in today. I voted yes back then for prop 187 and I fully support the stance the people of AZ took on "ILLEGAL" immigration. One thing that chaps my hide is listening to these progressives out here twisting this topic into hate/racism issue. They try and spin it that if you are against "illegal" immigration, that you are a hater or racist! You will never and I mean never hear a progressive use the term "ILLEGAL" immigration. The PC term is "migrant workers" or "undocuemented workers." None of those definitions are legal definitions and really don't exist anywhere. When I think about 187, I always think "what if?" or "what about the will of the people?" Is there such a thing anymore...

Jason Hill on December 10, 2010 4:49 PM

I don't have any answers, but I know there are illegal Mexicans in this country who are here to work, and they work hard, long hours for less pay than my fellow US citizens. They have a network where they can get forged documents needed to be employed. They are poor and will never be able to afford the cost of citizenship, which is more than most people in my working class could ever afford...not to mention the many, many years it takes for the paperwork. Only those who have the money...are rich or worked very long and hard, have the money to become a legal US citizen.

Pam on December 10, 2010 4:56 PM

The explanation for the "Do I have this right?" poster is clear and simple.

There are no liberal Democrats in North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, China, Venezuela, nor in Cuba.

How hard was that?

Perry on December 10, 2010 5:09 PM

Dear Mr. Carter:

Thank you for your e-mails. I am Saudi citizen and living in Saudi Arabia and attached to the US more than to my country. I used to be member of more than 20 professional societies (architecture and engineering) in the USA.

Since the begging of 80s, I visited USA many times for tourism. American people (not stupid politicians) are great people with great values. You Americans contributed more than the rest of the world all together to innovations and more important to democracy and freedom etc (very long list).

American administration (R &D) and politicians (in Washington) do contradicting the American people great values and this the only reason why the US economy slowing down and the American people they have to sacrifice a lot even in their great values.

Media (TVs Newspaper, etc) in the USA are not honest with the American public with respect to what is going on outside the USA, Washington mistakes and double slandered.

I would like you please to listen to short film: Why 9/11? by Daniel McGowan ( and ask yourself why those terrorist targeting USA and UK mainly.

The most important question is why most of the American public do not know about the facts in the above short film? Although the film reflect the opinion of the people who produced it, but I guarantee no one will dear to broadcast it in the USA local TV stations for discussion and also will guarantee if it broadcasted, the head of the TV station will be fired immediately. Why? .. answer the media is censored.

Best regards and God plus America.

A M Alhamed on December 10, 2010 5:38 PM

Tim, I don't really believe you want to shoot anyone. "Tongue in cheek" is my style, and I have no doubt you expected as much with the way you set up your position on this particular thread. :)

You wanted responses, and you've certainly gotten them in spades on this post.

In terms of me "doing what I said earlier this week", well, I just can't let a topic like this one go by without commenting. :) I'm also happy to know that you are actually reading these comments.

But, redeploying all of our troops from around the world, on to the Mexican border? You can't be serious? It would never fly, for several reasons.

However, I will say this about that concept: it might stem the flow of drugs into the country, and that would be a good thing.

So, in my opinion, the flow of illegal/illicit drugs into this country (as in pot, cocaine, heroin), is a far worse problem that the flow of illegal immigrants.

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


I warned you. You better give up. Each post you sink deeper in the mud.

Go back and read Ron's post from earlier today.

Did he say put all US troops from around the world on that border?

I urge you to think before you respond. :->>>


Lou on December 10, 2010 5:47 PM

Why does the government always punish the people that do things according to the rules and reward those that don't?

Michael Crupi on December 10, 2010 6:20 PM


MONA GREER on December 10, 2010 6:30 PM

Hey Tim,
I just read your comments regarding "The Making of America" by W. Cleon Skousen in your email. May I also recomment "The Five Thousand Year Leap" by the same author. This book covers the 28 principles from the time of Moses that Jefferson incorporated into the Declaration of Independence as mentioned in the book you referenced. Equally worthy is "The Miracle at Philadelphia" by Catherine Bower which is an over-view of the blow by blow account of the Constitutional Convention which took place from 25 May to 17 Sept. 1787.

Richard Bussell on December 10, 2010 6:57 PM

It's ridiculous. The U.S.A. has a set procedure for legal immigration. Stick with it. Learn to speak English, get an I.D. with your face visible, support yourself, become a useful citizen. Anyone not happy to be here, anyone not cherishing the freedoms found here but no where else on the planet, anyone not supportive of the United States of America needs to find another country in which to live. Any voting American who can vote out their idiot representative who supports opening wide our gates to fast-track immigration needs to vote that rep OUT!

Beth G. on December 10, 2010 7:54 PM


Mona Greer on December 10, 2010 8:26 PM

It took someone like Obama to get elected to finally wake this country up...thats about the only good thing he has done for us.
What about the word ILLEGAL is so hard to understand. Our job has only begun in keeping these progressive liberals from taking this country down the road to socialism.
I listen to Micheal Savage " The Savage Nation " almost everyday. To bad the mainstream media will not let him be heard or interviewed. I just finished reading his latest book " Trickle Up Poverty ". This book is a must read and will give you the real truth with what has been going on in this country.

chuck on December 10, 2010 8:38 PM

I am not in favor of this "Dream" act. My response is to replace our troops now in the Middle East with the Illegals that have crossed our border. Give them a weapon and a uniform. If they survive to the end of the "Wars", they can apply for citizenship. But, we all know that the above is not going to happen. However, I think that requiring them to mandatorily serve 4 years in the military and dropping the college offer would be the test of their willingness to become citizens of America. Those that survive would appreciate the cost of Freedom.

Gerald Davis on December 10, 2010 8:54 PM

It all comes down to buying votes. It is really that simple.

scott field on December 10, 2010 9:07 PM

Just one - what is it about the word "illegal" do people have a problem with?
Anyone identified as illegal of any age, sex or nationality regardless of the time period spent in this country should be deported within hours of identification.

T on December 10, 2010 9:12 PM

Charles K, your guess is correct - congress does have a different definition for "illegal" look at Rangel.

Also, Scott Field, I agree it is about buying votes. I live in NV and after the election I found information on Harry's big win. He carried only 3 counties: Las Vegas, Carson City, and Reno. All of the less populated ranch/farm counties, one in which I live, voted against Reid up to over 70% in some counties. Those populated counties that carried Reid have large hispanic and union communities. In NV when we vote we sign our name next to our printed name in a huge tablet, then vote. No ID required.

Now, if Meg Whitman's maid lives in NV, with a social security card and mailing address, it would seem to me that she would be allowed to vote. This is abominable to me and literally makes me ill thinking about possible voter corruption in NV. There were rumors here that Reid's people contacted big casinos and put pressure on them to send "certain people" to the voting booths.

Additionally, where I grew up there were big ranches and guess who worked the fields? High schoolers...and they worked their tails off. They learned the meaning of manual labor. Our young people act as if some jobs are "beneath" them, which I think is wrong and the mentality has contributed to a lazy society.

I certainly hope we do not follow in European footsteps where our youths are rioting in the streets because "in France they passed a law where employers could fire people who didn't come back to work after lunch (a couple years back)," or their tuitions in England were going to go up from nearly nothing.

Finally, like so many postings here, I believe America is the greatest country in the world, and we owe it to our ancestors and forefathers to maintain the "American Experiment" at its highest level. For those who want something different, there are many other choices (countries) to choose from.

Thank you, Tim, for your wisdom, insight, and opportunity through this blog to share American thoughts.

Cheryl H on December 10, 2010 10:55 PM

Charles K, your guess is correct - congress does have a different definition for "illegal" look at Rangel.

Also, Scott Field, I agree it is about buying votes. I live in NV and after the election I found information on Harry's big win. He carried only 3 counties: Las Vegas, Carson City, and Reno. All of the less populated ranch/farm counties, one in which I live, voted against Reid up to over 70% in some counties. Those populated counties that carried Reid have large hispanic and union communities. In NV when we vote we sign our name next to our printed name in a huge tablet, then vote. No ID required.

Now, if Meg Whitman's maid lives in NV, with a social security card and mailing address, it would seem to me that she would be allowed to vote. This is abominable to me and literally makes me ill thinking about possible voter corruption in NV. There were rumors here that Reid's people contacted big casinos and put pressure on them to send "certain people" to the voting booths.

Additionally, where I grew up there were big ranches and guess who worked the fields? High schoolers...and they worked their tails off. They learned the meaning of manual labor. Our young people act as if some jobs are "beneath" them, which I think is wrong and the mentality has contributed to a lazy society.

I certainly hope we do not follow in European footsteps where our youths are rioting in the streets because "in France they passed a law where employers could fire people who didn't come back to work after lunch (a couple years back)," or their tuitions in England were going to go up from nearly nothing.

Finally, like so many postings here, I believe America is the greatest country in the world, and we owe it to our ancestors and forefathers to maintain the "American Experiment" at its highest level. For those who want something different, there are many other choices (countries) to choose from.

Thank you, Tim, for your wisdom, insight, and opportunity through this blog to share American thoughts.

Cheryl H on December 10, 2010 10:55 PM

Tim, I reread Ron's post. He's either referring to 100,000 troops divided by 4, or 100,000 troops per each shift of four; either way, taking all U.S. troops back home. Back home to where, the Mexican border? Or just stationed in the U.S., doing what? Either way, it's not workable, and for you to say that I'm getting deeper into mud, is silly.

There are enough foolhardy ideas expressed in this thread to sink a ship; the USS America. It's all emotional based ranting that makes no sense. I won't stand by and let comments of this sort go by without making a retort. I love this country too much to let it be hijacked by a mob of raving lunatics.

People are angry about their standard of living going down, but have no idea why it's happening. So they rant about the wrong things, because these issues are easy targets to get mad at, and they blow off steam. But it doesn't solve anything.

In the mean time, the super-rich, who as a group, have never been more wealthier than the average American than they are right now, continue to become even richer - at the average American's expense.

For a detailed explanation of the economics of the situation, I encourage you to read this:

To top it off, there is a post here from a person who put a link to a video that says the U.S. support for Israel is the reason why the U.S. is targetted by terrorists, and not one of you said a word about that. Interesting.

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


I've pleaded, petitioned, requested, you to hold back on your comments here on this thread and now you've bottomed out. You're in the mud over your axles.

You've now stooped to name calling. You're close to becoming an ecosystem polluter here at my Fire Pit. You do that, and you'll not be welcome here.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm starting a new post about patrolling the border. We'll get experts to weigh in on how it's done. You're not one nor am I. For you to judge Ron's solution as silly is as subjective as I've ever seen.

Then you vociferate that many of the comments on this post are foolhardy - and imply the authors of the comments are raving lunatics. How is it that you have the
mandate to make such a judgement?

The final straw is you complaining about a link to a video. How many of your past comments here at my Fire Pit begin with a Thank You to me about allowing free expression? Then, when you see something you don't like, you complain about it. Are you kidding me? Did you even think about what you were saying when you typed that?

You imply that others here are ranting because their standard of living is going down. Where'd you get that from? Here in these comments? Where are the instances of that? You're drifting off topic.

Then you blame the rich again. How many times does it take for you to understand that this great land you love so much is the Land of Opportunity? Do I have to say it 50 times, perhaps 100 for it to sink in?

You know there's a fantastic saying my oldest daughter came up with. She's used it on me countless times. Here it is:

Excuses are reasons for FAILURE.

Better sit down Lou, it's time for some very tough love.

Because of the personal failure in your life, you're making excuses. You're letting your personal misfortune cloud your judgement. Let's call a spade a spade.

You're bitter because you don't have a job. You make excuses as to why you're not working. You blame those upper management folks at IBM that gave you a pink slip for your current situation. That's BS. It's an excuse.

It's YOUR responsibility to provide for yourself. That's the way Mother Nature intended it.

The more you comment here, the more obvious it is. You belong to that subset of people that think others should take care of you.

Admit it. You wanted the upper management of IBM to have a great desk for you every day. You wanted to just come in and do your job. You wanted them to care for you.

How about taking personal responsibility for your situation like our Founding Fathers and the original settlers did when they came here to have a better life? They didn't have anyone caring for them. They took it upon themselves to scratch out a living.

Why don't you pick yourself up and use your God-given talents and get a job, even if it's stocking shelves at a store? Stop blaming others for your situation.

When I played football in high school, there was a sign leading out of our locker room. It said;

Quitters NEVER win and Winners NEVER quit. Right now you're a quitter. You've given up. You appear to be consumed by bitterness, self pity and a host of other emotions. Pick yourself up off the field and go score a touchdown.

Lou, I beg you to think deeply about all of this. Stop blaming others. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You have, right now, the ability to make $1,000,000 or more per year on the Internet. It's right there. It would cost you about $1.35 a day. That's the combined cost to host a website and have a shopping cart.

You can be one of those rich people you seem to loath. Oh, wait, maybe you don't want to be rich! I never thought about that. Is that the issue?

In fact, IF you were making $1,000,000 a year right now, what would your attitude be about the rich? Stop and think before you answer. We'll all know if you're telling the truth.

I don't want to hear ONE word from you about WHY you can't pick yourself up and make as much money as you can imagine. That's BS. There's a mountain of free information on the Internet about how to do all of this.

In closing, talk about sinking a ship, you're sinking your own ship named USS Lou Credibility or possibly USS Lou Imploding.

I suggest that you take a one-month shore leave and go spend some time with that new wife of yours you told us about. If you spend much more time here, she's going to sue for divorce based on abandonment.

Lou on December 10, 2010 11:28 PM

It not just the illegals, what about those who enter our country legally and over stay their visits. To put it simply our house is full and we don't need any additional guests.

Most of your readers will remember the Sept. 11 terrorists were here legally. In fact we knew some of these guys were a threat and nothing was done. In the early 90's the US government allowed a blind cleric into our country even though he was strongly suspected of terrorist acts in Egypt. Of course now he is in a federal prison for his role in terrorism acts here. Why do we allow these type of idiots into our country. Our government is destroying our way of life everyday with it political correctness.Let's shut both our front door and back door and get our house in order before we implode.

James on December 10, 2010 11:45 PM

Here is a summary of the DREAM Act from Wikipedia. I know that Wikipedia is not the best source of information but I am going to pull a Tim and ask if you dispute this explanation – please present your facts:

This bill would provide certain illegal and deportable alien students who graduate from US high schools, who are of good moral character, arrived in the U.S. illegally as minors, and have been in the country continuously and illegally for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment, the opportunity to earn conditional permanent residency if they complete two years in the military or two years at a four year institution of higher learning. The students would obtain temporary residency for a six year period. Within the six year period, a qualified student must have "acquired a degree from an institution of higher education in the United States or [have] completed at least 2 years, in good standing, in a program for a bachelor's degree or higher degree in the United States," or have "served in the uniformed services for at least 2 years and, if discharged, [have] received an honorable discharge.

The securing our borders is a completely different matter and should be addressed separately from this act.

My comments
First of all, the people effected by this legislation generally were brought here by their parents and had no control over the matter

Second, the parents that brought these kids over while committing an illegal act (which we should address) have more guts and ambition than a whole lot of whiny ass adults in America. They risked so much more than your typical American to better their lives.

Third, I will submit that the parents DID NOT accept anything less (and probably a lot more) from their children. These children received so much more “tough love” and attention than a whole lot of American kids that get sent off everyday to school. In addition, these kids learned a second language making them more prepared for the global economy that a majority of American kids.

Fourth, the US, or one of the States, paid to educate AND GRADUATE them from high school level.

From a financial standpoint it makes no sense to deport these kids after “investing” all of this time and money in these people. Most of these kids would make good educated, ambitious Americans. Why would we want to educate these kids and then just send them back to their parents county. From a personal standpoint it is just cruel.

I don’t expect most of you vindictive, intolerant rednecks to like this message but I guess that is just part of open expression.

PS to Lou: Could you remind me your solution to this "super rich" problem that you continue to bring up over and over and over and over again?

John C on December 11, 2010 2:10 AM

My ancestors became citizens of the U.S. of A. Each and every. By the dint of their desire.
Nobody handed them a thing EXCEPT the oppertunity.
I wasn't "Give me..." it was 'I will earn..."
Ok, give me a hand and show me how and I will EARN what I deserve.
Yeah, give me a break.
Whine and boo-how for awhile then get off your lead daisies and do something about the problem.

Patrick Coppage on December 11, 2010 3:07 AM

This is a very difficult issue. We need to be of two minds on illegal immigration. First we need to think like a nation and of our sovereignty. We have a legalized path or people to be citizens of this great country. Therefore I believe that the government has not only the right but the responsibility to enforce its laws in a just manner. It is immoral for the government to take from the working people of this country and give to the people who break our laws by entering this country illegally. There is no justification in our founding documents to support this kind of action.

On the other hand, we as individuals need to have compassion on all we meet. We need to offer as much , to all people as we can. It is my right and responsibility as a human and the Christian to treat all men as God's creation.

So the true issue is really two headed. I expect the government to do what they were hired to do, and uphold the laws and the Constitution of the United States of America,and myself to love each person as God loves them no matter where they come from a what country they truly belong to.

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


I'm all about compassion and help. You were so close, but you stopped with your logic just before sliding into home plate.

If people want the "support, love, and kindness" you mention, they can come here LEGALLY and get some from all of the privately funded social groups here in the USA. Just last night on television I saw a commercial for the Salvation Army. How many other organizations are like that?

Bottom line: People who are NOT US citizens need to RESPECT our laws and not enter our land without our permission.

Always use the smell test in situations like this. Is your own home open to anyone who wants to come in? Do you have a sign up in your yard saying something like:


You can come inside here and live. I'm a compassionate person.

That doesn't make sense does it? You don't have that sign up for a reason.

And as for God, let me tell you. She/He's already programmed into just about each human being all the survival skills that person needs. Perhaps the most basic ones are thirst and hunger.

If a person gets hungary, they'll usually start to work to get food. I urge you to stop worrying about people. They pretty much can take care of themselves.

You do it, don't you? You take care of yourself. Why don't you think others can achieve what you have?

Ted Steele on December 11, 2010 7:18 AM

This I believe is the single biggest threat to our country and our way of life. It is also a major security issue.

Tony on December 11, 2010 7:33 AM

To all you who want to let them stay here ILLEGALLY. To all you who have compassion because they want a better life... Let me and 30,000,000 citizens become UNDOCUMENTED taxpayers. Don't label me ILLEGAL. Don't hate me because I want the money I earn to help my family. By letting me keep my money, I'm not hurting anyone. Would you object to that?

Brad on December 11, 2010 8:36 AM

Everywhere I look it is Mexiscum working and I still am dumbfounded that me being a union plumber, who has been out of work going 2 years now, I still can not get hired even a BS job! Yet all these POS are working! Yes I am very angry because I have 2 girls ages 5 and 8 and I have lost my house and my truck and to top it off its xmas time. We have to be out of our house on December 30th. What a happy New Year this will be! I really hope that they are not granted amnesty to being a citizen, they ARE NOT the backbone of the USA, they ARE the plague that will doom us all!!!

Dave Sopcak on December 11, 2010 8:38 AM

To those that want to allow the ILLEGALS. Why do you lock your house at night or when you go off to work? Please put a sign on your front lawn. "I will be at work/sleeping for the next 9 hours. Please use my house, TV, frig, bed, car, etc as I do not need it for the next 9 hours. I will not consider you a trespasser but only want to help you have a better life"

Brad on December 11, 2010 8:43 AM

To those who want to allow the ILLEGALS. If you really had compassion for them, why don't you and Hollywood and the libs go down to their town/village and give them $10,000. In that environment, you could feed, cloth, medicate an entire village. Instead you call it compassion to force them to work for sub-human wages and to live their lives in hiding and fear from arrest. That's more akin to slavery than compassion.

brad on December 11, 2010 8:47 AM

It seems we are constantly battling our government. Is this a game with them? Try to pass ridiculous bills and see who objects? I think the time for talk and protest is over. It's time to act!

Tim on December 11, 2010 8:48 AM

Regarding troops on our borders - how about the 28,000 on the Korean border?

John in Dryden, MI on December 11, 2010 8:56 AM

Clay Lamb is a genius...we're packing up and heading south as soon as this snow storm ends.

Holly on December 11, 2010 9:09 AM

I've read lots of comments, if these people want to come over here and work illegally well thats one issue. I don't like it but they are finding work, thats not their fault. Well is hiring them? better question is how are they getting the fake drivers lic. or better yet how are they getting the TWIC Cards (Transpertation Workers Card) if the cards are fake why doesn't the refineries catch them or the goverment, someone should be able to prove authentic cards.
Take away the bird feeders, stop all the free give aways that the average white american doesn't get. Just let them work and pay taxes, stop the give aways. Our current and past administrations are spread poverty, were teaching folks how not to work, rely on goverment. Untill they have you bought and paid for then we'll work we'll be slaves or dead. Stop the crazy stuff, we must pay as we go. Earn what you want, no food no free stuff then maybe they will go home where they like it better......

Denny on December 11, 2010 9:15 AM

About the Dream Act, I vote NO.
My father's parents migrated from Poland. They became U.S Citizens the legal way, and worked very hard. No one was allowed to speak Polish in the house; everyone had to speak in English.

My Father was the first child to get a college education and put himself through school. It was all about good clean hard work.

A few years ago, I and others at our church sponsored a Liberian family coming to the U.S. because of religious persecution. I heard their many horror stories of torture, and executions of family members.

They came through legally, and were honor students in school, hard workers, and now are American Citizens. They continue to work very hard, and help those around them.

As I had to work as a team member with UMCOR to help this Liberian family of a mother and five children, we had to make sure they obeyed all the rules. The rules were that our church provided housing for a limited amount of time, the family was put on medicaid for six months, and they had to get jobs right away. They were not allowed to work for the state or government, and if they got into any trouble with the law, they knew they would be deported immediately. They followed the rules, and now have a home of their own, second hand cars, and are working hard. They have their own healthcare insurance now, and we taught them to balance a check book and how to budget their money.

My next point is this: illegal aliens have more right than they, as legal aliens did. They had to obey all the rules, and they worked hard and did. The healthcare, after six months was gone, and they had to start earning their way on everything. They even had to pay UMCOR back for their airplane tickets to come to the U.S., with time payments.

Illegal aliens do not have to jump through the hoops they did. And, if an illegal breaks the law, then deport them, like they should be deported when they are found out.

So, what is my point? Illegals get free healthcare all the way, plus other perks that people who migrate legally DO NOT GET. When I speak with legal migraters, they are extremely angry about all their hard work and how others break the law and get a free pass.

Last, illegal migration is costing us BILLIONS of dollars. Want to save money in our flailing economy? SEND THEM BACK. SECURE THE BORDER.

Respect what made this country great, people coming from different countries following the rules and embracing the U.S. as their country.
They, like my grandprents believed in this country and were proud of it, and they gave back to the U.S. with their service, and everything they had.

God Bless America!!!

Connie M. on December 11, 2010 9:29 AM

As I read down through the comments, a lot of
things come to mind. One is that the people
of this Great Nation no longer have a voice.
I have written, emailed, phone my congressman
representative, and anyone of so called leadership
I can find, funny I always get back a reply in
the form of a letter or email and they all
say the same thing. "thank you for contacting
the office of Senator xxx, we appreciate your
concern, and will take it under consideration.
I watch there voting record, they do not listen
to we the people.
Tim I would like to say Thanks for all that
you do and to give us red blooded Americans
a place to voice our opinion. I don't know how
all this will turn out. I have nineteen Grandchildren, needless to say I dearly love each
and everyone of them, I am also deeply concerned
what kind of America we are leaving them.
In leadership we have so called leaders like
pelosi, reid, weiner, frank, on and on. I fear
nothing good can come from this.

Ray on December 11, 2010 9:40 AM

Do it legal! My ancestors did! The Dem's just want all illegals to vote because they vote Democrat!Pelosi's newest ploy is to get her army back in power letting the illegals here is like catering to criminals!My family has to pay for education and had to take a back seat to the iligels who gets first crack at free schooling!! Nice fire Pit!

Pat M on December 11, 2010 9:52 AM

"The enforcement of our immigration laws is critical to both our national security and economic prosperity. We need to know who is entering our country, and why."

fred Patrick on December 11, 2010 9:57 AM

We have a fair, process for those born outside our borders to gain citizenship. Those who can, should follow it. Those who can't, need to be found, rounded up and sent packing - back home.

Admittedly, the process for becoming a citizen is not easy. It shouldn't be.

JON on December 11, 2010 10:35 AM

We are a nation of laws. The second we forget that is the second that we loose this country as all of us know it. For those who think that open borders are the best way to go, I would be very careful what you wish for. You just may not like it.

Bob Neveux on December 11, 2010 10:39 AM

I stand by my recommendation that we bring ALL of our troops home from overseas, but only suggest that we put about 100,000 of them along our border. I am a decorated combat veteran (two tours in SE Asia) but firmly believe that our military is far too large and that there is absolutely no benefit to the hardworking taxpaying citizens of this country of continuing to maintain bases overseas or for us to be involved in wars such as Iraq and Afghanistan that will serve no long-term purpose. As Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower (our only president in modern times who was a professional soldier) warned as he was leaving office, "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." My great-grandparents all emigrated here from Europe and I continue to believe that legal immigration is good for this nation. However, I equally believe that illegal immigration is a cancer on our entire society that we need to eradicate. Enforcing our immigration laws, sealing our borders and heavily fining or imprisoning those who give aid, comfort and/or employment to illegals is the most certain way to accomplish that.

Rob Robinson on December 11, 2010 10:46 AM

Tim, First of all, thank you for the Fire Pit.
It seems that these comments have been quite heated.

Rational thought must be used to correct a broken system. Someone earlier essentially said that you should fix what is wrong with a good system rather that "fundamentally changing" it, and I agree whole heartedly.

Rob made a stupid comment about you wanting to shoot people. Rob, sir (if I may be so liberal - ugh! - as to use that epithet), no one wants to shoot another. If you have EVER spoken with a war veteran, they would have told you that it haunts them for the rest of their lives, even if it was a bad or evil person.

I think the solution to every woe Americans face boils down to cajones (testicular fortitude for those unfamiliar with Mexican slang).

1) The borders must be sealed...and we can do that with our military technology (as stated above) if we elect the politicians with the cajones to do that.

2) To transport all those illegal immigrants who are here now back across the border would be a MAJOR undertaking, physically and fiscally, at this point. The sheer number of them is only one part of that problem. Too many other issues exist for the contents of my limited cranial vault to entertain at the moment. (I knew I should have stopped at one beer last night - given that I did live through the 60's and 70's, after all.)

What we have to start doing is enforce our laws that are already on the books (which is what Arizona was trying to do for itself, since the feds were just getting in the way) and send the lawless ones back home. To do this we'll need cooperation from the Mexican government, which is possibly one of the most corrupt governments in existence. We'll need to simplify the immigration system, which is too much like our currently over-complicated tax system for the average American citizen to understand, let alone the average, poorly educated Mexican immigrant.

For this, again, we need political leaders with cajones.

3) While we're at it. Fix the damn tax system! The Fair tax works just fine for me. And anyone electable person (with you know whats) who adopts it will, without a doubt, win.

4) We need to stop giving out entitlements, especially to those who are here illegally, whether it was intentional or not. The parents who bring their children here expecting those entitlements should not be led to believe that its OK. Cooperation from the Mexican government, again, will help a lot.

In summary, we need leaders with...Repeat after me, "CAJONES!" (Might not look too good as a campaign slogan though. Could you imagine, "We want cajones!" repeated, ad nauseum?)

George E. on December 11, 2010 10:59 AM

Rob, I just read your comment. Sorry for insinuating that you did not know anyone with your obvious military experience.
Thank you, most sincerely, for your service and your sacrifice.
I'm just so used to commenting to the ultra-liberal, Harvard grads like my extended family members.

George E. on December 11, 2010 11:06 AM

I am happily married to a woman of Mexican descent who was born in Anaheim CA. Her parents came from Mexico, went through the legal process and became citizens. They had no sympathy for illegals.
I relate this so there can be no comments about racism.
I like to keep things simple, so this is my comment:
If you're here legally..Welcome. If you're here illegally, go home!

John Williams on December 11, 2010 11:31 AM

At first I thought that Rob Robinson's math couldn't be right. 100,000 soldiers would have to be further apart than 50 yards to cover our southern border. Nope! Actually, evenly spaced they'd be only 34 1/3 yards apart. Dang, they could easily keep themselves busy by playing catch or the longest game of "telephone" ever!

Steve L. on December 11, 2010 11:55 AM

Merry Christmas Tim,
Bottom line is these undocumented people coming across the border to the USA are killing us financially. There is no end to the freebies they get. Bring our troops home and have them guard the entire border.

Russ , Hebron,NH on December 11, 2010 12:08 PM


Mona Greer on December 11, 2010 12:34 PM


Mona Greer on December 11, 2010 12:39 PM

Hi Tim, I do appreciate so much how you keep on top of everything going on in our country. I do my best to keep up with all the news everyday. I hope that the Dream Act will not get enough votes to enact it. Keep up the good work in keeping on top of the political scene. I wish you and your family a wonderful Christmas as we celebrate the birth of our Savior.

Marge Ahlgrim on December 11, 2010 12:41 PM

I tend to agree with the individual who suggested bringing all the U.S. troops home. Not sure if I would bring them all home, but certainly most of them. And they could patrol and secure your border.
If I were to sneak into your country from Canada, get a job, live there for years, marry and have a family (actually, my wife is from America and entered Canada legally, got dual citizenship)and then one day finally was found out what should I expect the result to be? It doesn't matter how long I snuck around in your country. Doesn't matter that I have a family. I and they are illegally in the country and I would expect to have to leave. I'd consider myself fortunate if I was given another chance to do it right, because I had broken your law and was breaking it every day I was in the U.S. illegally. It is obvious to me your government and president want to fast track entry for millions of these illegals to build a voter base. With such criminal, crooked leaders, without honour, swearing to uphold the constitution and then not doing so, your country is in a whole lot of trouble.

Craig Mouldey on December 11, 2010 1:14 PM

Tim and Lou. Your discussion and commentaries regarding super rich etc remind me that unless one is an economist or trained in the subject of capitalism, as the tool or engine of society, one can easily fall into the "traps" of taking untenable and opposing stances about your personal beliefs upon the subject. In your cases both, and for others who may also opine, may I suggest you visit my site and see the article on post modern capitalism. It may enlighten both of you to the 'validity' of both of your arguments and make your debates less strident. Tim for you I believe you need a better understanding of the part the "human equation" plays in the argument and for Lou i believe he is as I am, less than admiring of what actually amounts to the rise of socialist corporatism, which I also address on several articles on my site. Please forgive me if it appears I may be "pulling rank" but I see anger arising in your debate and that of course solves nothing. james

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:


Thanks for your comment. I'm not angry at Lou at all. You sensed enormous frustration.

Talk to my oldest daughter and she'll tell you. I've got zero tolerance for folks who whine, complain, or blame others for their mistakes/situation.

On the other hand, I have nothing but praise for those who live by the saying:

Actions speak louder than words.

As I tried to vocalize, if Lou took it upon himself to create his own business and make $1M a year, I doubt he'd think being rich is evil.

Only time will tell, but it ain't talkin' as Kenny Chesley said.

james M. Convey on December 11, 2010 1:28 PM

I am a substiture teacher and every day I go into classrooms of young people who think nothing of breaking any and all rules of the school. They will lie, cheat and steal from each other and they think nothing of it. Why? Because their parents do the same thing as an example to them. We have a large Mexican population in my area and a good portion of them are not here LEGALLY. Their children are among the rudest and laziest students. They want you to give them the answers. They have no supplies (paper, pencil) and expect me to provide them. I do not believe that it is because they are Mexican because the children of LEGAL immigrants are among the brightest and best. It is not a nationality that is the problem. It is the parents BREAKING THE RULES in the first place that teaches them. We have a big problem and it is only going to get worse the more ILLEGAL folks that come across our borders.

Sarah T on December 11, 2010 1:39 PM

A civil society only remains CIVIL if the checks and balances of the Rule of Law are applied.

Diane on December 11, 2010 1:40 PM

As someone who spends part of the year right down on the border amidst all the fuss and fight, i can speak with some knowledge of the situation, which is untenable. The deaths and killing across and on the border is beyond terrible. We as a society are partly to blame because of our insatiable drug thirst (what is so terrible in our lives that we want this poison?) and our unwillingness to do the jobs illegals are coming here to do. While there are many illegals here working hard and supporting families, there are many others who are growing/running/selling drugs, stealing, gang-banging, etc. Our country cannot sustain this long term. The arrogant entitlement mentality that many illegals have is shameful, but of course not all illegals are from Mex.
I urge everyone to watch the program called Border Wars on Nat Geo. It is a closeup look at what really goes on out there from the Border Patrol's viewpoint. It is truly a war zone out there. Our border is under assault- troops are really a necessity and they should have the authority to defend us from this attack. If you don't believe how bad it is, watch that program.

It is an outrage for me/ my family to be afraid to go out and enjoy our public lands, in our own country for fear of coming across a drug stash or a guarded group of illegals. Our natural resources and beloved desert is also taking a beating like you cannot believe. If you've ever been to Mexico (outside the fancy resorts) you will notice the cultural aspects of the towns. the trash and garbage is staggering. And guess what? it looks like those towns out in our deserts. It is not about being poor; it is cultural. they think nothing of throwing trash on the ground, even with a trash can in sight. you will never change that mentality nor the culture of corruption in MX. It is too deep-seated and long-standing. But that isn't even the real issue!
We need to 1) secure/seal the border by whatever means necessary! Troops on the border is not a bad idea. 2) determine what our worker needs are and open up the LEGAL process for people to come legally. it should not take forever and it should not cost a fortune. 3) stop the incentives (free goodies at taxpayer's expense).
4) vote out the politicians who keep giving away the farm and incite class warfare. We are a nation of laws. Why are we allowing this to go on?

julio on December 11, 2010 1:52 PM

I live very close to the border and some of the cortel have chosen Austin as the place to dispurse all the drugs to other parts of the U.S. It's not the ones just looking for jobs that bother me as much as the ones that chop your head off and hold you hostage. We need to secure the border before the U.S. is taken over like they are doing to Mexico. I love to visit Mexico, but haven't been down there in years because I am afraid to go. The tourism is one of Mexico's largest money source, and they are losing all of it. We have a bunch of idiots running this country and until we get someone that understands what's going on, God Help Us.

Janice C. on December 11, 2010 on December 11, 2010 2:02 PM

First off it wasn't the Mexicans who made this a great country so what makes them think they can cross our borders and collect social security free heath care and etc.This is so wrong that this is happening.And these liberals, the only thing they can say is, oh you must be another one of those hate mongers if you don't agree to open borders.I've got news for them, Mexicans have there own country with very strick border rules so if they don't like the way their country is, stay there and change it, don't come across our border and ruin our country like they've ruined there own.It may cost us alot of money to send them home but it's going to cost us a hell of a lot more to keep them here.

butch t on December 11, 2010 2:06 PM

I'm so sick and tired of obeying the law, paying my taxes, and living within my means, only to see the government keep rewarding those who make poor choices, break the laws, and don't pay a nickel in taxes (legally and illegally). Good grief...look at all the tax dodgers we have in Congress and Obama's Administration! Wesley Snipes is now serving 3 years in a federal prison for tax evasion, but not Geithner or Rangel. The Dream Act is amnesty -- plain and simple, and has the potential to add millions of ADDITIONAL immigrants through family ties. Our infrastructure can't handle it, there isn't enough money no matter how high you raise taxes, and every time we dilute our education system we lose the ability to compete globally. The U.S. is now in the middle of all nations on test scores in science, and below average on math -- we no longer have the best and brightest. I'm a college instructor, and I have seen student skills decline year after year -- they can't write clearly, they love to copy and paste, and few understand critical thinking or problem solving. Adding more unqualified students to the college classroom through the Dream Act (hey, everyone, come get your FREE college diploma!) won't help -- it will weaken the value of a degree even further. I worked my way through college and grad school -- I had a personal investment in my future. There is no accountability or personal responsibility any more...we are becoming a nanny-state of entitlements, and it's breaking the backs of those who worked hard to get where they are. When is it enough? I hope the new Congress is willing to make tough choices and cut spending and waste and fraud.

Judy on December 11, 2010 3:03 PM

Pls go to the website & sign up to send FREE faxes to your Senators and Representatives. They have been diligently working against these various amnesty acts for the past couple yrs and it's imperative that we make our voices heard!

On Weds night the house passed their version and they are going to try to get the Senate Vote next wk!!!

Reagan gave the last amnesty that should ever happen, and this is just a travesty. All illegals need to be sent back.

Lauren Werner on December 11, 2010 3:47 PM

To John C., well said. Thanks for bringing the details of the Dream Act to light. You had the guts to call it like it is.

There is a lot of misinformation spewed out in these posts, and I for one appreciate your attempt to have an honest conversation about the issue.

I can personally relate to what you said. My niece recently married someone who is technically illegal. He graduated with her at their local high school, and has spent a good deal of his life here in the U.S., but he wasn't born here. His parents came here from Mexico to work, and they did just that; but, they never became citizens.

The boy is a very decent fellow and wants to become a citizen. But his father had just passed away from cancer, and as I understand it - he and his family would have otherwise been deported. Now that he married a U.S. citizen, he has a chance to stay, even though it's not an easy process and there are still complications. Stories like this one get lost in the kinds of talk you see here.

To address your question about my bringing up the rich. Really, it's about the economy, not the rich per say. It's not that I hate the rich - as Tim disingeniously harps on. I don't hate the rich, and I don't have a problem with people earning a good living. It's "the gap", the out of balance situation between the rich and the rest of us, that is the problem. We will not have a decent society if the middle class disappears. But that is what has been happening, very slowly, over the past 40 years.

The problem has been hidden to some extent by the federal debt. As the statistics clearly point out, the biggest increases in the debt have mainly come from conservatives. The debt will increase again if the current proposal gets passed.

Here is another very good website that points out the statistics that I'm talking about:

Since this thread is about illegal immigrants, I won't spend any more time on the issue of the economy right now. But I do reiterate my recommendation to read the series of articles in the URL I listed in my previous post.

Lou on December 11, 2010 4:16 PM

This DREAM (actually, nightmare is more accurate) Act is nothing more than a shameless bid by the liberal progressives for a HUGE number of Hispanic votes. Each illegal who is given amnesty will be able to bring additional illegals into the country (parents, siblings, children) who will also presumably be given US citizenship as well as untold amounts of (borrowed) taxpayer dollars through the wide array of social programs ranging from welfare to free healthcare. The one thing we can be sure of is that those pushing hard for this amnesty have no interest or concerns about the many costs to our culture. Just the Hispanic votes.

Eli Zonana on December 11, 2010 4:32 PM

Your point is well taken Tim, but I believe the definition of "Rich" is what might be the cause of some dispute. For instance my understanding of Rich, from an economists viewpoint, hardly includes those hardworking entrepreneurs, from Henry Ford to Bill Gates, who have built the entirety of democracies worldwide, including the United States! Which nation, at one stage of it's development, was probably the finest example of entrepreneurial freedom and opportunity in the history of human progress. That is no longer the case, as this dynamic has become increasingly suffocated over the last 25 years, by what I stipulate in my papers and essays, is the new order of socialist corporate, accumulation at all costs,hedonistic "UBER" rich, who now control western capitalism! Simply by controlling the access to the available pool risk capital.

For you and I or Lou, or anyone, to debate the basics of what we mean by "rich" is really a moot argument. The problem in America and indeed in all western democracies, is the rapidly disappearing window of opportunity, for the "average joe" to achieve any sustainable level of security. The "middle class" as it has bcome to be known in the U.S. no onger have available to them the same level of access to a value creation dynamic that their fathers and grandfathers had. Perhaps therein lies some of Lou's frustration? Additionally this ability to create individual wealth, will continue to shrink as the Global dynamic brings even more competition to the table.

James M. Convey on December 11, 2010 5:08 PM

Tim and Lou. Perhaps I can refer you to an essay of mine that further underlines the "squeeze" that is pinching the US economy where the "rubber hits the road" so to speak. with respect James

james M. Convey on December 11, 2010 5:20 PM

One point to remember, this is not a Mexican issue or a Hispanic issue, it is an ILLEGAL ALIEN ISSUE. While our southern border is so close to Mexico, and other south of the border countries, makes it easier for those folks to come here without going thru the proper channels, there are many people here from other countries such as Asia, Russia, Carribean & the Middle East who are here illegally. This is an issue that needs to be addressed. It is also an insult to the people who have come to America seeking a better life and who abide by the immigration laws.

Anne on December 11, 2010 5:34 PM

To James Convery, I am surprised and pleased to see you here on this blog. I in fact used information from your website in one of my older posts from a prior thread, intially started in early November. Here is the link to that thread. Let me know if I applied the information from your website appropriately.

So James, how did you come to join in on our "friendly" fray? :)

I hope you continue to add to this and future discussions.

Lou on December 11, 2010 6:06 PM

We cannot afford MORE debt on top of almost $14 Trillion we already have!!!!

How can ANYONE support a plan to take upwards of $44 billion a year from taxpayers
and hand it over to illegal aliens who are in the United States so they can go to college.

Congress’s plan should be "cut" federal spending – which seemed to be a dominating theme of the 2010 elections?

1. Enforcement current Immigration Laws of the United States of America!

2. Secure United States of America Borders; NORTHERN, SOUTHERN, EASTERN, and WESTERN!


Lawrence Gratton on December 11, 2010 6:14 PM

Lou, I was advised by my site monitor and in following the thread communicated directly with Tim. I visited the site and was pleasantly surprised by the respectful tone of most of the debates and postings. I love in Canada but spent many years working in the US as well as Europe in both economic and analytical disciplines. I intend to visit Tim's site and opine from time to time and I trust that you and others will visit my site frequently and equally leave a comment or two? www.james Like the Firepit it is free! Cheers James

James M. Convey on December 11, 2010 6:33 PM

The US can never be prosperous again until the illegals stop sucking us dry..... WHERE IS THE WALL....WHERE IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT!?

Joel on December 11, 2010 7:27 PM


As is quite usual for this blog your "facts" are faulty. At least according to the Congretional Budget Office. Here is the cost estimate they issued a couple of days ago. It actually reduces the budget deficit.

Of course if you do have some creditable data to dispute this I am all ears.

John C on December 11, 2010 7:51 PM

Thanks Tim you hit the nail on the head. Go to if you want to become part of an army of citizens opposed to irresponsible immigration policies - especially the nightmarish DREAM Act.

Tom E on December 11, 2010 7:59 PM

Good Question for you – How in the hell do we get our Representatives to listen to us sane citizens & vote the way we want. – Over 80% of the American public did not want the Socialist Health Care Bill to Pass, But pass it did. Now we needed health care reform in this country but not 2,700 pages of just god awful legislation. Ron Paul had a very simple 12 page bill Fix. Most people have no idea of the nightmare in dealing with the Government in issues that affect them personally, what a shock they will be experiencing – need a scan – nope has to be approved, need a test – nope has to be approved – 2nd opinion LOL – This is why so many Canadians pay out of their own pockets for testing , treatments etc cause they would be dead by the time their Socialist Health Care System gets around to making a decision.

Now we have Pelosi & Reid’s * Dream Act * – Which is giving Amnesty to 12 – 20 million illegals If that bill passes & it very well could – the Middle Class in our country will be done
Washington allows over 1 million legal immigrants a year to come to our country , even though Americans are out of work ( 9.8 % unemployment BULLSHIT try more like 28 – 35 %) , these million plus immigrants come year after year.
I say we adopt the Swiss policy of immigration. Which basically is – To obtain a work visa to their country – You must prove a certain amount of savings so as not to burden their country’s tax monies if you lose your job there , get hurt etc – You must have your own Health Insurance with the premium Paid each year in advance – You must have a trade , engineering skill , teaching skill a service that would be of value to their country. Now if the Swiss unemployment rate goes above 5% yep back to your country you go
Check out this video - quite shocking

AND MOST IMPORTANT - You Must Contact your State Representatives - Go Here -

Now do something besides pissing and moaning - contact tour Reps

Sonny - Note to Tim - Enjoy your emails, sounds like you got a lotta hard bark on you Tim

Sonny on December 11, 2010 8:21 PM

In answer to a previous comment concerning reducing the illegals and having them become citizens, here is an excerpt from a letter I sent to President Bush:

You say we can not deport the estimated 12 to 20 million illegal aliens already here. Here is a plan to solve the problem. First, the southern border fence is completely built to prevent more illegal aliens from coming into our country. Second, the illegal aliens already here that have criminal records are deported along with those belonging to the gangs that freely roam our streets. Third, school drop-outs are returned across the border- why decrease our literacy when we can have educated workers come in legally? Next, we look at those illegal aliens who have been here for say, ten years or more, and see if they have assimilated into our culture, can clearly speak and understand English, have stable jobs and have a record of paying taxes. If not, they get also deported. And those remaining would be allowed to stay after they follow the laws already in place to begin the process for legal immigration.

What ever happened to the Alien Registration Act of 1940? I can remember my mother going to the Post Office and picking up a government form, carrying it back to my grandmother’s house and witnessing her put an ‘X’ on it. This law should be enforced so we can know where all the aliens are living in the United States.

As for your reluctance to fully fund and immediately build a secure fence, you speak of having an electronic fence. Well, I will agree to have an electronic fence IF you tear down the iron fence around the White House and go without your guard detail. After all, if you have confidence in an electronic fence for our nation, then you should not need an iron fence and bodyguards. Is that asking too much?

john on December 11, 2010 9:29 PM

Tim, You're preaching to the choir, as we like to say down here in the South. Keep on preachin'. It appears to me that every place I go now, I have a spanish language line to correspond with the English one I can read. It would seem to me that if I were to get a job in Mexico, or Guatemala, I would learn the spanish language, so as to communicate my thoughts as well as wishes to the populace there. Not so here in America.

Carlton Lowry on December 11, 2010 9:46 PM

Sonny.......... Please understand I am not trying to interject myself into your debate about American healthcare, but I certainly would like to correct your misconception about our Canadian system. You are wrong! I live in Canada and I can assure you that our healthcare, while still not perfect as nothing ever is in this world, it is nonetheless second to none. I have also lived in the U.S and while I had company health coverage my deductibles were substantial and I was refused care for a "pre existing condition" VHL. One of the reasons I returned to Canada in 1997 was because of my health and the facts relating to American insurers denial of coverage for a "Genetic abnormality". It is not for me to debate the rigth or wrong of your citizens choices as to healthcare but I can assure you that Canadas is superior in the vast majority of any comparative access to treatment examples

James M. Convey on December 11, 2010 10:27 PM

This is what you get when you try to be compasionate to those who break our laws. You get spat on by them and taken advantage of.

It is enough to justify another war with Mexico.

Eddie Hagler on December 11, 2010 10:31 PM

Our country is a nation of immigrants. It helped make our nation great. But, that refers to LEGAL immigration. Employers should verify citizenship. Illegal immigrants should not get a "free lunch". They should go to the back of the line to do it the right way.
I agree with Rob's suggestion that our troops should defend our border. And, yes Tim, you have that correct about border crossing. We should all follow Richard's suggestion to flood Washington with Tim's border poster.
Merry Christmas to all.
God Bless the USA !

Marty Freer on December 11, 2010 10:53 PM

To James Convey, thanks for your enlightening comments about Canadian healthcare. I wonder if anyone will bother to read it.

My frustration, not only with some of the people on this blog, but of people in general, is that these like minded folks don't bother to read, research, and do the hard work necessary to understand the complexities of many topics. They drop a post - which usually is an emotional rant that is full of misinformation, but they don't bother to read anything else becaue they are convinced that they are correct.

They are focusing on the wrong, or at least imcomplete set of issues. Thus, when things in this country continue to decline, they get angry and always want to focus all of the blame on someone, as if one thing is the sole reason for the wrongs that they perceive.

Lou on December 11, 2010 11:56 PM

@ Lou: I have a belief on this subject also.
".........One learns with age hopefully, that there are "two sides to every story". It is therefore for me a sign of immaturity, and weakness of intellect, for one to not do ones best to learn as much about the two opposites, in order for one to form a sensible and well centered and reasoned opinion. If history has taught us anything, it is that if hatred in any form, is allowed to enter the debates of man, it clouds the mind and causes nothing but fractious and stubborn resolution, with no hope of reaching any accommodation whatsoever. It is also a significant waste of energy! The only solution,( which argues strongly for the position of reasonableness in all debate), would be therefore, to simply declare war each time differences appear and settle the matter in a conflagration of death and winner takes all!
I assume that those who hate would therefore be willing to die, for such hatred to have any validity whatsoever? ........ One lives in hope that people will be finally willing to become informed before they go off "half cocked" to use an old English expression.

James M. Convey on December 12, 2010 12:44 AM

There were three presidents who rounded up all illegals and sent them back so the troups coming home would have work. The last president "IKE" called it the "wet back roundup". He sent them on ships as far down into Mexico so they wouldn't come back. Why can't we do this now. We have rules and regulations to come into our country follow them if you want to become a citizen. If our country keeps going the way it is we will become Chinese's. If president Obama gets more bills passed we'll never rebound from our debts. There was a time when other countries owed us money. What the hell has happen to this country? It's like every one is putting blinders on. We need to show our so called representives that "We the People" run this country and not them ! Vote them all out and start over. This should let the next group understand that we won't stand for thier crap ! I really thought it was going to happen this last election ! Whimps ! ! !

Dennis on December 12, 2010 12:49 AM

Hi Tim I added an item and rewrote your insert below:
Is there something troubling to you here below?

If I were to cross the North Korean Border Illegally I get 12 years hard labor.

If I were to cross The Iranian Border illegally I get detained indefinitely'

If I were to cross The Afghanistan Boarder Illegally I get shot.

If I were to cross the Saudi Arabian Border Illegally I will be jailed.

If I were to cross the Chinese Border Illegally I may never be heard from again.

If I were to cross the Venezuelan Border Illegally I will be branded a spy and my fate may be sealed.

If I were cross the Cuban Border Illegally I will be thrown into political prison.

If I were to cross the Mexican Border Illegally below would be my fate:

Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," violate Mexican law, are not "physically or mentally healthy" or lack the "necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents.

If I were to cross the U.S. border Illegally would have access to:

A job

A drivers license

Social Security Card


Food Stamps

Credit Cards

Subsidized Rent or loan to buy a house

Free education.

Free health care

A lobbyist in Washington.

Billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in my own language

The right to carry my country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect.

Richard Coppola on December 12, 2010 5:03 AM

Wow! I wish every American could read this!!

Winnie Stearns, ND on December 12, 2010 7:04 AM

A recent travesty just happened 12/10/2010:
A federal judge has dismissed parts of the U.S.Department of Justice's challenge to Arizona's new immigration law.

U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton's ruling Friday struck down the federal government's challenge to the portion of the law that prohibits the transportation of illegal immigrants.

Bolton on Friday denied Gov. Jan Brewer's request to dismiss challenges to the law's most controversial sections.

What bubble are these federal judges in? If it doesn't fit, then change the law!

Cobras on December 12, 2010 7:12 AM

Why not follow Arkansas law?

Richard Preston on December 12, 2010 8:14 AM

HOLY-MOLY ! ! I have been reading some of these
comments on your latest fire pit and I am dizzy.
Do not understand some of the misguided people
like maybe Lou, but certainly agree with the idea
of bringing our own troops home and putting them on our own border. If we don't do something soon we won't have a border to defend.
Tell you what I am going to do. I am going to send this posting of the "fire pit" to my Senators
and Mr. Ben Chandler, Rep. of 6th District of Kentucky. Very Democrat and very LIBERAL ! I will receive a very polite and non-committal letter in return. The letter will say "nothing" and promise "nothing." It is almost funny but I am going to send it anyhow.
Thanks Tim for all you do an keep up the good work Sincerely, Kay

Kay G. Taylor on December 12, 2010 11:17 AM

We have reached a point in time where our normal law abiding citizens that hold to the Constitution are vilified and illegals receive compassion and tax dollars.

As for me I press "0" every time I hear "press 1 for English"!

Ed Taylor on December 12, 2010 11:43 AM

To Kay Taylor. Please let me know how I am "misguided", as you say. :) Seriously, I'd like to know how you think I'm misguided here - specifically in context to the illegal immigration issue.

I ask because, I genuinely want to know how you see my point of view, if you actually understand my position on illegal immigration, and how you see it to be wrong, and I want to understand your point of view as well.

I believe, as James Convey said in one of his recent posts, that to truly understand things, one needs to learn as much about all sides of an issue as possible, and try to understand many different points of view. That's one of the reasons why I am here, reading as many posts as I can. Thanks.

Lou on December 12, 2010 1:05 PM

Aww what the hell - after reading "Trickle Up Poverty" and "Broke" i have become discouraged to the core simply because our system of politics, government, and judiciary, on all levels, has brought out the worst of human nature - GREED,HUNGER FOR POWER, REVENGE,JUSTIFIED KILLING, AND OUTRIGHT LYING. Why bother to fight it anymore? All i want to know is what federal law will they let me break on a daily basis without prosecution?

jim newman on December 12, 2010 1:11 PM

If you want to know who the real culprits are that have stolen the American economy away from the American people, read this article from todays NY TImes.To quote from one of my own pieces "a small cadre of mediocre men that decide in a socialist style, how the wealth of a nation will be controlled".
It isn't about illegal immigration! That issue is simply to deflect the American people, in their ignorance, to focus their attention away from the real criminality that is being pursued daily by the corporatist elites on Wall street etc. Their lobby control the keys to Washington! Also now your supreme court must rule upon a corporation in the same light as individual citizens in the voting booth, and of course they now have the right to buy elections through direct and indirect secretive funding? I'd say this is a lot more frightening than a few illegal immigrants?

james M. Convey on December 12, 2010 1:52 PM


Peter Mulay on December 12, 2010 2:36 PM


Peter Mulay on December 12, 2010 2:37 PM

Illegal is illegal. If you want to be an american citizen then do it the right way. Come here legally like our forefathers did. Learn the language. When you become an american citizen you are no longer a mexican,polish,russian,african,chinese,japanese,or any other nationality. So there is no mexican american, afroamerican, japanese american or any thing else. You are an AMERICAN so act like one and quit throwing you nationality in my face. I could claim many backgrounds, ie Indian,german,irish,dutch,italian and many others but I do not because I am an AMERICAN now! I believe in and try to do what president Kennedy once said "Its not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country".
Another thing is that if the parents are not citizens then their newborn brats are not also just because the mother was able to get one foot on this side of the border.
I'm all for the Arizona law. I think it should be tougher. My parents are american citizens and I must carry ID on me if i was to get stopped by the authorities. I must have a valid drivers license, insurance,registration papers to prove who I am, so whats the big deal with having to prove who you are. Those that make the laws do not live here in the trenches within 50 miles of the border. They come across and demand that we give them anything they want as if we owe them.

Tom Cruise on December 12, 2010 4:14 PM

WOW!! so many more excellent posts!! People out there GET IT! Why don't our elected representatives (of both parties)????
NO DREAM act. When Reagan granted amnesty, most of us held our noses and agreed to it. we were promised "never again"!! But here we are AGAIN! so, NO!! a thousand times NO!!
Stop spending, stop taxing us to death, stop the class warfare that pits us against one another, stop with the elitist crap, stop giving the goodies to people who have not earned it, stop giving rights and privileges to non-citizens and start listening to US!!, you S.O.B.s in DC!!
Let's all stick together people! we can make a difference but we can't wait until it is too late! thanks Tim!

julio on December 12, 2010 10:22 PM

Well Tim,
Seems you really hit a nerve this time. I don't think anything is as "in your face" as this illegal alien issue. Although in Massachusetts, according to our clueless attorney general, "illegal really isn't really illegal in Massachusetts". It's this philosophy that shows the ignorance of the liberal society.

For years, now, the citizens of this country are actually being punished because they are legal. We are told what laws are “good” for us and have to accept them. We are told that we must pay higher taxed to support illegal’s. They are “entitled” to our social security, the same social security us working Americans mandatorily pay into for our retirement. They receive welfare benefits at our expense. They are granted the same rights as real American citizens.

My ancestors came to this country legally, learned the language, abided by the country’s laws and worked to make a living for their family. However, when the real citizens complain of the unfairness, they are called “racists”.

Our borders are an open door for illegal’s as well as drug traffickers and government does nothing. Our homes and parks, along the border, are no longer safe because illegal’s think they deserve what we have worked hard for and government does nothing. Yes folks this is the same government that is supposed to be protecting the U. S. Citizen.

I agree that the reason the liberals need the illegal’s vote to retain office otherwise they will lose their jobs (welcome to unemployment). Maybe the time has come, once again, that the REAL U.S. Citizens take matters into their own hands because the government is no longer "of the people, for the people and by the people" it is a self-serving entity that dictates what is “good for the people” and forces laws upon the people that don’t apply to themselves.

Government needs to be reorganized and just as important, downsized, and with that throw out all career politicians and strip them of all pensions, health insurance and other undeserving perks. We need real working people in office, people who know how to earn a living, balance a budget, pay debt, people who aren't afraid to deport illegals, enforce the laws of this country and serve the people, not themselves or special interest groups.

And finally, because I REFUSE to be “politically correct”…
Wishing all a Merry CHRISTmas and Happy New Year

John on December 13, 2010 9:16 AM

Going to Healthcare Reform for a moment:

Mr.Convey, I understand you are proud of the Canadian system, and understand that you are in Canada for the coverage they give you under their system. But,..As a registered nurse and wife of a physician in this country, and with Canadian doctors as friends, I can assure you that the quality of care in the U.S. has been quite remarkable, in comparison to what Canada has to offer.

I am aware of the fact that many of the prosthesis used for instance in hip replacements were sent in bulk to Canada from the U.S. They were at discount prices, which probably did save Canada a lot of money, but the hip joints were over 20 years old. They are called the Austin-Moore Prosthesis. In the U.S. now a much better lazer cut prosthesis is used for the most, and makes the limping that occurred with the only standard sized Austin-Moore prosthesis a thing of the past.

I also know that as U.S. technology has advanced in pacemakers, the U.S. sells the old technology to Canada and other countries.

So, the point is, with more technology, and research in the U.S.,healthcare continued to advance, in quality.That may become a thing of the past with the new Healthcare Reform laws.

When my uncle from Ontario found out he needed gallbladder surgery, he was releived when he was visiting in the U.S. and could have the surgery there right away.

The doctors my husband has worked with from Canada came here because there was better quality of supplies,( even in small things like dressing supplies), and expediency of service here in the U.S. Now with the new healthcare regulation, I think doctors will be traveling back to Canada, as more denials are implimented on the Healthcare schedule going into 2018.

The other problem facing the U.S. is that the number of doctors practising medicine is declining by the thousands every year. I have been tracking the doctors in retirement age, and know that we lost over 70,000 doctors in retirement age right about the time Healthcare Reform was voted in. The Census Bureau has not published the 2010 data on practising doctors yet.
So, looking at the numbers, we will, undoubtedly have healthcare rationing. The doctors I talk to are already at full capacity in their practices, and still trying to shove more patients in.

I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I can certainly see the CRISIS caused by the failure to carefully address healthcare issues one at a time, and the rush to vote without "review" by Congress here in the U.S. Socialized medicine here in the U.S. is not possible, without severe rationing based on just the number of doctors alone, as 49% of our doctors were in retirement age from the year 2009-going into 2011. So, I guess you see the plight, that was not considered by Congress.

In the end, the changes in healthcare will not only effect the U.S., but also Canada.

Connie M. on December 13, 2010 12:13 PM

Thank you James Convey for supporting what I have been saying here for some time. The financial world is upside down and taking this country down the tubes in a BIG way. This issue makes immigration look almost insignificant. Until we take the necessary action (gulp) regulation to these types this country is going to be in a financial upheaval like you've never seen before. Greed left uncontrolled plain and simple. It will swallow up the middle class like we've never seen before. Things are happening that the average Joe has no clue about. What average Joe understands derivatives? I read a ton and still couldn't really explain it in any depth. The day will come when regular folks have simply had it and you'll start to see signs of a revolution take shape. Heck, people started flocking to Sarah Palin! If that's not a sign of Armegeddon I don't know what is!!! Lol!

TAngell on December 13, 2010 12:29 PM

This DREAM Act is a huge lie and fraud. It rewards the parents who broke the law by coming here illegally. (1) those amnestied can petition for their parents after turning 21 (2) those petitioning can be as old as 34! (3) the burden is on the government to prove that those petitioning are not eligible, which means everyone is eligible (4) for "humanitarian" reasons, those amnestied can petition for ALL blood relatives - aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. (5) those amnestied will be eligible for state or federal tuition aid, adding billions to our country's debt. If you want to check these facts, go to and read about this bill. The American people are overwhelmingly opposed to ANY amnesty. A lame duck Congress, knowing it will not face political repercussions, should not be enacting legislation that won't pass come January, with a new Congress. It's time for Americans to start petioning for their own rights, because politicians care more about illegals than American citizens.

Sharon on December 13, 2010 7:40 PM

I just spent some time reading the other posts. My daughter also married an illegal Mexican. He worked under the table, paying no taxes - and refused to support his American family by sending all of his earnings to his Mexican family. He did learn the language - to an extent - but did not assimilate. My daughter has since separated from him. He is now in jail and can fight deportation after his sentence - all on our dime. My best friend is Hispanic, so I don't need anyone saying that my personal experience has colored my views. The facts speak for themselves. We are in trouble in this country, and adding millions of illegals to our citizenry is not the way to go, as many of you have said.

Let's pray that the Dream Act fails so that we can truly have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Sharon on December 13, 2010 7:58 PM

I have read some of the comments here but not all. The resolution of this problem (illegal aliens) IS complex and not easy to fix. Seriously, "send 'em all back" is not reasonable nor doable. First, employers SHOULD insist on valid citizenship requirements. More than one piece of identification too. Verify the Social Security number too. It is far too easy to just grab someone else's. Second, those employers who don't care because they want cheap labor who are paid in cash, who are paid a wage that couldn't support them, much less their families (no way to sustain them too), get absolutely no benefits, are not covered by workers' compensation or unemployment insurance are worse than greedy...they are scum.
Wonder why the employers do this? They can get laborers who will work in unsafe conditions, long hours and then turn around and charge for their product at competitive rates and proudly state "made in America". Yeah, but by whom?
I place a lot of them "blame" on the employer. There are some of you who believe it is the fault of capitalism. Folks, we haven't had true capitalism in our nation for over 100 years. Listen this eye-opener about our economy: Big government has interfered in so much of business that the problems caused by this interference have now come home to roost - (NAFTA, CAFTA, and so on) where good jobs go out of the country, very little manufacturing is done here, and we, the consumers, get shoddy products and green fruit. See, there is no easy answer to any of this!
My gripe, if you will, with the illegal immigrant is the illegal part. Along with that is the incredible red tape and delays it takes to become a citizen in this country. And we wonder why they come here under cover of darkness? Yes, I know criminals, gang members and terrorists slide through too - private citizens who live near the southern border are in serious peril.
The other gripe I have is that some, not all (I hate generalizations), illegal immigrants come to this country demanding rights that aren't theirs to have. A criminal does not have a right to free medical care (of course they do-not just the illegals), does not have the right to demand our schools teach their children English when they refuse to learn it themselves, get government financial aid, in-state tuition and think they can pretend they are still in Mexico and wave their flag over the U.S. flag. On the other hand, I believe that cultural traditions SHOULD be handed down. Think about it: don't you still do things in your family at Christmas, for example, that were done at your grandparents? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I keep seeing the argument that we ALL came from somewhere else (at least our ancestors did) and I believe that stories, folk lore, traditions should be passed down to each generation. That is family in the truest sense of the word. However, I would expect in my own family as well as yours, to be open and create new traditions that a new member of the family has (such as a new son-in-law etc.). That is the kind of assimilation I see as productive and still patriotic to the U.S. Have your pinata at your child's birthday and, you know what?, let my kid have one too at his/her party!
Celebrate the 4th of July with us; honor our past Presidents on Presidents Day, that is assimilation!
We must protect our borders...the idea someone had to bring ALL our troops home and have them posted at our southern border is a great one. We have NO business being in other countries. We have NO business having military bases in other countries. Do we let any nation have them here? No, sir (madam), we do not. Why is that? How does that make us safe when our borders are as porous as swiss cheese? We have to protect our borders - all other countries do and you cross at your peril.
It is time to solve the problem and start enforcing the laws already on the books.

Steph on December 14, 2010 12:08 AM

The biggest concern for me right now is our border towns and ranchers. The killings and violence that is spreading. A truck driver told me the cartels are buying up dairies/land in the border towns too. No wonder the ranchers are being killed/threatened off their land they have owned for generations. God Bless and Merry Christmas. How did America become a third world nation and under whos watch or lack of it.

Sharon on December 14, 2010 1:39 AM

I have lived on the border of Mexico all of my life, and believe me, you do not want these illegal aliens coming in by the thousands. It's not right to make other people go through getting citizenship papers, and giving these illegal Mexicans amnesty--that is ridiculous. Tim is right. These people from Mexico just want benefits--they do not care about America--fly their own flags. The present administration just wants their votes--they don't love the illegals. Get real, people. We need to respect the American laws--the illegals don't. Our Armies should be posted on the border to keep them out--they are Mexico's problem, not ours. After all, the Army takes care of all other invasions, and this is an invasion against our country. We cannot afford these people, believe me.

Janet Quigg on December 17, 2010 8:34 PM

@connie M..... I don't believe i claimed the Canadian healthcare system to be without its flaws? I was responding to a generally negative comment about our system as if it were somehow deficient to the US system. My personal experience, as with yours is very specifically personal! I can assure anyone however, and I challenge you to counter this fact. That I know without exception, of no occasion where health care coverage under the public plan, has ever been denied to any Canadian citizen. Nor citizens of any other country for that matter in an emergency ayt no cost! Regardless of their existing or any preexisting condition? That is not true of the US system and simply that is fact. I am myself living proof to this.

james M. Convey on December 18, 2010 8:45 PM

We can begin our protest by complaining to every business that has this damned Spanish language message when you call them! Also, bank ATM's. I've let my bank know my displeasure with the ATM and their phone system having a Spanish choice.

As a side note, I am presently working on the control system for a large 9 floor building. The floor tile work is being done by a bunch of Mexicans who can't speak English. About 5% of the tiles on the stairs are falling off. Gee, I wonder why and I wonder how they got the bid?

Steve Bukosky on December 19, 2010 4:01 PM

I know this is an "old thread" at this point, but I believe in constantly pursuing the truth, so I thought I'd add another comment.

Basically, it's just a link to an article that I think everyone should read regarding immigrants. I just came across it today. It has some interesting information that should be factored into the debate.

Lou on December 29, 2010 1:39 PM
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