Obama Birther Debate - The Un-Natural Born Citizen

Tim, I wonder why it took so long to come up with his birth certificate. I lost mine awhile back and since I know I was born in Cincinnati and Hamilton County I had my duplicate in 5 days. No mystery, no problems, no issues. Natural or US who cares. Just show us your birth certificate. Something smells in the woodpile as my dad use to say with this guy. Happy Holidays old buddy!

Who the hell cares what un-natural born US citizen means? Let's also define roast turnips. As you said: The Fourteenth Amendment pretty clearly states that if you're born in the United States, you're a citizen.

COMMENT BY Tim Carter:

Kevin,

Lot's of people care. As for roast turnips, perhaps you can start a website about that. You're pretty good at website creation. :->>>>>

There's a big difference between natural born citizen and citizen. If it weren't so, the Founding Fathers - in their infinite wisdom - would have just use the word "citizen" instead of "natural born citizen" in our Constitution.

Since we can't speak with them, all we can do is look at their writings. In them, you pretty quickly pick up that they wanted the President of the USA to be a second generation US citizen through and through.

if it is required that both parents must be U.S. citzens for a person to be eligible for the presidency, then having one who is not a U.S. citizen makes that person an 'un natural' citizen. and the Barry daddy (unless that is a lie too)was a British citizen. Oops. Dang Barry, how did you get all those different Social security numbers from places you never lived? the oddest thing, isn't it? But the politicians, bought and paid for can't be bogged down with such trivial things. they are too busy destroying the country. Better to implement Agenda 21 as good citizens of the earth.

I believe a unnatural born citizen means not born a citizen from natural born citizen parents. I also believe proof of natural born citizenship before even pursuing office of President of the United States of America.

I find it a major win in the art of misdirection that this argument continues and Bahama is still in the White House. The mass of information we don't know about this man (law review articles, grades, pictures at school etc) is huge, making what should be a no brainer (proof of natural born citizenship, or citizenship in general) suddenly a gigantic issue. The dissembling and interference by this joker and his people, not to mention his associations, says that the fix is in and high crimes and misdemeanors are the rule of law today. You can argue all you want about the definition of citizenship, but that is only one issue in an administration that deserves impeachment.

It is simple an un-natural born is BHO, a fraud, a fake and a looser that is taking our country down the wrong road; the road that his backers want us to go down. The road to disaster, the same road Europe is on. It says more about the fools that put him up to run and the fools that voted for him than it does about him.

I swore to uphold the Constitution and gave the government a blank check for everything I have including my life to preserve the Constution as it is and don't want some socialist idiot and their suporters stealing my check.

i FULLY AGREE WITH CRAIG MOULDEY, NOW MY FATHERS MOTHER WAS A CANADIAN CITIZEN AND NEVER NATURALIZED. YET MY FATHER SERVED IN THE US ARMY BORN & BRED HERE AND HIS SISTERS & BROTHER DOES THAT MAKE THEM NON CITIZENS AND IF THATS THE CASE AM I A NON CITIZEN. NOW YOU'VE GOT ME THINKING

One of three things have been upheld by the courts concerning a natural born US citizen.
1. Born in the USA(ie Hawaii)
2. Born in a designated US property out side of the US(ie Military Base)
3. Born to a parent who has US citizen ship or both who have US citizen ship, regardless where the birth took place.

That is it, no big conspiracy, no tin foil hats, let's try to talk about real problems not made up ones.

In my opinion, anyone who can read and speak the English language, can understand ( natural born)!
Those who deny it are lying through their teeth. Nobody wants to admit they have been played for a fool.

it is just unbelievable that this commission gave no credibility to what the lady lawyer had to say. it is obvious that the big o is trying to get his bases covered but not doing to good a job. my guess is the commisioners are all demorats?? oops, did i say that?? good luck n.h. wait till hits the big networks.

George - I'm with you, There are 3 things people hate:

Being lied to

Being made a fool of

And the guy that tells them that either of the first two have happened.

Makes this all the tougher

Have a look at this:
http://sidster.com/sidbit/2009/01/02/unnatural_born_citizen

I read this and it sure seems like there is a cover up by Obama. He is not transparent with his politics like he claimed he wanted to be. He sure is not transparent with this birth issue.
I didn't vote for him the first time and will not for 2012.

Tim,

From what I understand, natural-born citizen means someone born anywhere with two American Citizen Parents. Both parents have to be citizens for the child to be a natural-born citizen, even if the child is born on U.S. Soil. I guess the rule doesn’t apply to Obama, or I don’t undestand the definition of “Natural-Born”, or both.

Jerry

As an Australian citizen, residing in Australia, born of parents who are both Australian Citizens, but having spent time living, studying, and working in the US. (I even graduated from High School in the fair city of Colusa Ca. in 1976)I thought I would comment on this subject, even though I do not have any right to participate in the US electoral system either as a candidate, or a voter.

In class in High School in California, this subject was debated at length.

Coincidentally at the time the school was being visited by military recruiters. I was asked if I wanted to join the US military. I answered, "No, but even if I wanted to, I am not a US citizen, so how could I swear alleigance to a country when I was not even a citizen?"

The answer, to my surprise, was "No problem, we can get around that." They made it clear that being a foreigner only prohibited me from becoming president. That was the only office in the country that I was forever disqualified from.

In class I brought this incident up in discussion. The point was repeatedly made to us that regardless of many opinions being against anybody being born in the US to foreign parents, the fact remained that if you were born within the US, in a US embassy or consulate, or on a US flagged ship in international waters, or flying over international waters on a US flagged plane, you had automatic right to US citizenship, regardless of the nationality of your parents.

If you were born on a US flagged ship in a foreign port, or foreign waters, then you had no such rights, unless your parents or one of your parents were US citizens, in which case you could become a foreign born US citizen with all the associated rights, except the right to become President.

This seems pretty clear to me.

If Obama cannot produce a birth certificate, or other clear evidence of his birth circumstances, he should never have been allowed to run for office, and if it is found that he was born elsewhere, he should be immediately kicked out of office, and power transferred to the VP. Otherwise you have a constitution that only applies to ordinary people, and the powers that be are above the fundamental laws that govern everyone else.

For a country like the US that stakes its whole reason for being to the "Freedom" ethos, this is intolerable, regardless of whether you think Obama is a good bloke, or not.

If there's no legal definition of "unnatural born citizen", I don't think it matters what definitions anyone else comes up with. But more to the point on Obama's origin of birth I think is the fact that birth announcements appeared in both the Honolulu Advertiser and Star Bulletin. What sort of weird forward thinking would it take to post falsified announcements "just in case"? I'm pretty sure he was born in Hawaii.

What I've always found stranger than anything about his birth certificate is the near total blackout, as Frank P. mentions above, on his time in higher education. The lack of material can't only be because the liberal media refused to vet Obama.

There were so many lies there,Attorny Orly Taitz had all her infomation, yet they would not believe it....what is it going to take to get him out of the white house.....Obama has got to go and looks like NH isn't helping the situation any either......what is wrong with the Ballot Commission? Don't they see the truth when it hits them in the face ???? Or who are they afraid of ????? A bunch of traitors were on that commission.....but it's not over yet......I think Obama will get what's coming to him.....scamming doesn't pay off......you will get caught and you will pay.....

At the time of the adoption of our constitution there were only 13 colonies or states. Today there are 50. As long as one is born within these 50 states then you are eligible for the presidency. There was no stipulation of the birth places of your parents so this was not an issue in the 18th century. The natural born could or should also apply to anyone born of U.S. citizens in foreign countries, protectorates or military bases anywhere in the world as McCain was. The question here is where was our president born? Hawaii or Kenya? There are supposedly eye witnesses to support both. Only one of his parents was a U.S. citizen. According to reported research she did not qualify within the residency requirements that must be met also. Somebody is lying. Why did O. spend almost $1M of donated campaign funds to keep his birth certificate from being made public if born in Hawaii? Why is the original still not available? The debacle by the NH Board of Elections shows just how deep this coverup is or how little gumption elected or appointed officials have today. Same for the Supreme Court. It is "Constitution be damned. We will do what the Democratic National Committee and the president wants and to h*** with America". Who is Obama? His past is murky and seems to be just one lie after another. He is the liberal media's golden boy and they are not going to rock his boat by telling the truth about him. This is a bigger coverup than the Warren Commission.

Here is another bit of legislation that was tried. Eight times in the past 4 years a bill was introduced in Congress to change the requirements to be US President in terms of being a natural born citizen. All 8 times it failed to even get to the floor. We have very corrupt people in our gov't that want to make this a European style gov't. I am 60 and cannot believe I am seeing the overthrow of the US gov't so to speak being attempted. The Tea Party and conservatives in general are fighting the main stream media and there agenda of pushing this socialist way of thinking. But then again it all stated back in the 70s and the education system in this country teaching socialism to our kids. This is the end result we have today.

Wow, what a controversial issue. However it seems to me to be very simple. If a child is born in the US or in US Territory (i.e., Guam, Puerto Rico)or on a US ship, or in a US Consolate, then the child IS an American Citizen, and I'd say that's Natural Born. But it's also been defined that if the child's parents are both US Citizens, the child is a citizen regardless of where the birth took place. Interesting terminology has to do when a person was born elsewhere but became an American citizen. What became? You know, stood up in front of a judge and swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States. The term is was "Naturalized". SO, a Naturalized citizen IS an American citizen. But Obummer's father wasn't an American citizen by any definition. And if his mother was an American citizen, and he was born "outside" the US or it's territories, then he is NOT a citizen. Natural born or otherwise. So he should be impeached for impersonation and theft of the Presidential Office and subversion of our Constitution.

Tim there is a vietnam vet sitting in oklahoma tonight that is so heart sick at the condition of his country he could just die but we must look to our Lord Jesus to do for us what we can't. If the tea party doesn't get cracking and retake the Gov. we will be sunk.(preaching to the choir here) I have been watching for the communist regime to declare martial law for the last year and, BINGO OWS, We have got to get a republican in there, NOT Romney, so we can stabilize things and then push hard on our agendas, but first things first, get Obama out of power and doze out all the riprap he and other communist have installed, EPA, UN, ECT. I'm seriously afraid for our country. May I say "If a people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray I will heal their nation" PLEASE America earnestly pray it's our only hope.

The only entries here that make any sense are from Jim Mattson and Mona G.. To all of you "birthers" you are wasting your energies on this issue instead of issues that would actually have an impact on the country. This has been flushed out and it is a dead issue today for just about all but a few youtube viewers. Go pick another fight please or take up an issue that has more teeth. This is a dead issue.

Natural Born Citizen is not really defined. However, that term was used for a reason. What that reason was, I don't know, I wasn't around then. Perhaps that term meant something at that time we don't know about.
With that said, I will get to the cover-ups about Obama's past.
Before I became a commissioned naval officer, I was required to have a long form birth certificate, all my college transcripts, and a complete background check. Before I could get a top security clearance, even more checking was done.
All this info is available if you care to dig it up.
Now, we have a president that has covered up his past. He is the commander in chief of the armed forces and has the highest security clearance. The president works for us, and we should have all the information available.
After I returned to civilian life and was interviewed for jobs, one of the first things I had to show were my college records, including transcripts, a valid social security number and past job information.
Why is all this such a big secret?
Was he in school as a foreign student?
Does he have a legal SS number or multiple SS numbers?
Again, the president works for us. We are his employers, and we should known everything about his background.

Melvin what you don't seem to grasp is that Obama has presented a very obviously forged birth certificate which makes the issue very important. It would have been a dead issue because there was nowhere to go with Obama's countruy of birth but by presenting a document which uses different fonts, has a phony stamp authenticating the document, and is sequentially out of order requires those who believe in our legal system to investigate.

I don't care if Obama's ancestors came over on the Mayflower and have lived here since, I will never support him or anyone else that believes in his brand of socialism. It has never worked anywhere in the world and it will destroy America.

All, why is this being discussed? It is a non-issue as far as the country goes. It has no traction and continued focus on this topic diverts the attention from what should be getting attention. How about discussing the blatant growth of government that has resulted in two distinct middles classes being formed in order to get two groups fighting with each other thus allowing the governemnt to gain further control of our lives because the government is left alone, essentially, to operate unabbated. I am talking about the creation of a super middle class called the public sector. This public sector includes teachers, police, fire, local, state, and federal employess; all of whom get paid by the shrinking PRIVATE sector middle class. In my neck of the woods there isn't a teacher, including at the kindergarten level that makes less than I do. The kindergarten teacher across the street from me is 42 years old and makes $76,000 per year; works only 170 days per year, gets her health insurance paid for and has a guaranteed, lifetime pension, that by the time she retires at the old age of 55 will be $70,000 per year. All without risking a single cent of her own money in a 401(k) plan. The salary doesn't bother me as much as the pension does. The police officer that lives next to me makes $85,000 per year as a Sergeant plus health care, plus guarenteed pension etc., etc., etc. This situation has gotten out of control and is becoming more lopsided each year. We have let the government pass the laws and contracts that have resulted in a Public middle class that now has a higher standard of living than those who pay the public sector salaries in return for their loyal votes. These are the types of topics I would like pursued in the media and the government offices. Again, I am not opposed to the salaries. I get that. But the legacy benefits are beyond the pale and at what point does the monetary requirements of the public sector become so great that the private sector can no longer afford to pay the generous benefits.

This might add a little fuel to the fire (pit).

Back in 1875, the United States Supreme Court, in Minor v, Happersett, ruled that:

“Natural Born Citizen” was defined as children born of two U.S. citizens – regardless of the location of the birth. It found: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.”

To be specific, the case of Minor v. Happersett was not intended as to solve the question of Presidential eligibility at all. That case was in regard to a woman’s right to vote and while the case itself didn’t draw this specific issue into question, the Chief Justice, Morrison Waite, did, in fact address it in the issuing of the Supreme Court’s decision.

“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [88 U.S. 162, 168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens. The words ‘all children’ are certainly as comprehensive, when used in this connection, as ‘all persons,’ and if females are included in the last they must be in the first. That they are included in the last is not denied. In fact the whole argument of the plaintiffs proceeds upon that idea.”

BobInVA is right, as long as you realize that "was defined as" means "is one example of". it's like saying "passenger car was defined as a Honda Civic". the justices found that a person born of 2 u.s. citizens was definitely "natural born", and also found that there were other things that could also be called "natural born" but that those were outside the scope of that case.